Originally posted by Rogerm60: My point seems self evident. Collateral damage.
Off to a fine start: the link doesn't work. EDIT: I see it's fixed now. Looks similar to pics of IED or mortar damage I've seen that insurgents are causing innocents...
Such is the reality of war. It's horrible and never pretty, though is it more humane to main and injure a few hundred civilians or leave and put millions of Iraqi's under the threat of chaos and certain civil war which will amount to 10x the number of casualties, just so the US can take the "high ground" and claim to not have directly caused any further civilian casualties?
I hope the answer is readily apparent...
Originally posted by Rogerm60:Your statements imply that Iraqis who engage in gorilla warfare in the face of overwhelming forces are Terrorists, and use that supposition as if it were a legitimate reason to lower our own standards of conduct.
ter·ror·ist (trr-st) n. - One that engages in acts or an act of terrorism.
Well, the definition seems to fit those that are firing at our troops behind human shields, indiscriminately setting off explosives, bombing hotels and lobbing mortar rounds into highly-populated areas with little thought towards the loss of life, kidnapping soliders and civilians...
Guerilla, terrorist; can you seriously try to sit here and mark the difference between the two and keep a straight face? You are aware of foreigners (Syrians and Jordanians, as well as Al-Qaeda operatives) coming into Iraq for the sole purpose of causing harm to our troops and anyone who supports them right?
Finally, I've alluded to NOTHING that states that we should lower our standards of prisoner treatment. How in the Hell did you come up with that piece of work?
Originally posted by Rogerm60:Iraq can be seen as fighting a legitamate National defence against an invader, just as Afghanistan fought the Russians.
Pure and utter BS. Read up on why the Russians invaded Afghanistan and then come back and try that statement again. The Russian invasion of Afghanistan had NOTHING to do with protection, WMD, terrorism or even freedom. It had to do with their paranoia of it becoming another US lackey in Asia...
Furthermore, if the bulk of the population was taking up arms against Coalition troops, I'd say you would have a point. Given the SOLID fact that it's small but fiercely determined pockets of Hussein loyalists and/or Shi'ite extremists, this "legitimate" national defence argument in which the majority of the population in Iraq detests more than the US presence in their country is a heap of feces.
Originally posted by Rogerm60:Most people think that their cause is the most important one. It is decidedly unwise to think that it is the only one.
...and even less wise to believe that most US causes are the wrong ones, given the circumstanes and history behind those causes.
Originally posted by Rogerm60:I would like to think that no U.S. troops have executed or abused the corpses of the enemy.
I'm sure some has cropped up, though our troops aren't taught that actions like this are the norm. Far from it.
Originally posted by Rogerm60:This is off the subject of torture. Asking for a number at this point is moot. Cultural differences exist that make it more likely for Iraqi's to do such things, but it unfortunately seems to be human in nature and therefor is bound to happen on our side too. If the U.S. wishes to to claim a righteous position it must endeavor to to stamp out such behavior.
Stuff like this comes under review in the US military. I seriously doubt an eye would be batted at such behavior in the Republican Guard or any former Iraqi military outfit, for cultural reasons you yourself mention...
Nice bit of propaganda there. Interesting that it doesn't mention weapons and military equipment being stored in the hospital by Iraqi troops and them working with the hospital staff until they fled, like numerous other articles have mentioned. Feel free to plow through any number of them found through Google...
Originally posted by Rogerm60:...I would hope that dispite my opinions of which you know few, you know better than to think me "profoundly thick-headed"
If the shoe fits, wear it, as I said that IF one held the belief that US activities in Iraq are being equivocated as "terrorist" actions, then one has a profoundly thick-headed understanding of things...
This pseudo-philosophical circle jerk is potentially endless. I'm sure you could dig up an article on how some Iraqi family felt that US troops crashing through their door represented a "terrorist" action and extrapolate it to an absurd level of involvement.
That's all fine and dandy, but it doesn't change the fact that US troops are held to a higher standard and level of morality in terms of prisoner treatment than most any other country on this planet, including Iraq and it shows up on a DAILY basis (except when the media needs to make a point). Find me mass abuses that are the RULE instead of the EXCEPTION awith US troops on treatment of prisoners and I'll consider your position with gusto.
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