Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums General Common Interests Did you see the photos yet.....

Originally posted by Speed Demon:

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kicked out of the un: I only hope, then we can kick those fascist a$$clowns off of our soil and tell em to shove it.

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Originally posted by CRZYDRVR:

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Quote:

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Also folks something else to think about, could we be forced to leave the UN because of Bushs lies?

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That would be great, the UN is worthless.

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Originally posted by HITMANinMI:

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To expand on my eariler quote, about the US does deserve another attack.

We have so far killed over 100,000 innocent Iraqi civilans, most hated Saddam and had nothing to do with his gang. We have destroyed the entire country of Iraq.

We did all that to get Saddam "weapons" and to prevent him from attacking the US.

So far no weapons have been found, and few people think they ever will.

So basically everyone who disagrees with what I said thinks its okay for us to be terrorists and kill over 100k people, but it isnt okay for people to come here and carry out a terrorists attack.


The problem with some people here is they dont care if innocent people die in Iraq, but if they die here they do care.

They care only what happens in their homeland and care about no other country and what the World thinks of us.


We get what we dish out, we kill hundreds of thousands for no reason, we can expect it to happen here to.

I do fell sorry that people do die in attacks, but I truly believe that we get what we deserve.

Also folks something else to think about, could we be forced to leave the UN because of Bushs lies?

Bush has really messed up the World.

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Originally posted by mmars:

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Over in Iraq, the people know they are in a war zone. Yet they choose to stay in the war zone. Anyone with some common sense knows the risks of being an innocent citizen in a war zone.

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Originally posted by Stazi the Aussie:

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Originally posted by todras:

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Originally posted by HITMANinMI:

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sadly folks I do agree with the people that say we deserve it, after all look at what we have done.

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ROFLMFAO! Todras you're the best!

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I don't really know about the argument but that pic is so freakin funny when I saw it I just burst out laugting

Originally posted by JaTo:

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Originally posted by Rogerm60:

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Does Iraq deserve further attacks?

Have no innocents been killed there?

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What's your point? Iraq isn't coming under indiscriminate attack nor are Coalition efforts being focused against civilians for the specific purpose of terrorizing the population.

There's a marked difference between innocent casualties of war (which the US tries to minimize) and innocent casualties of terrorism (which the insurgent population in Iraq has been harvesting with little regard). For someone to casually lump US-led activity or to even allude to such a thing shows a profoundly thick-headed understanding of events...

Originally posted by Rogerm60:

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The original jump-the-gun supposition was never proved.

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Why? Because she can't remember it actually happening, even though medical doctors found evidence of rape? And yes she did remember some abuse handed out by her captors...

Originally posted by Rogerm60:

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Abuse of corpses for propaganda is common in third world countries, but not exactly torture.

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Fine. How many Iraqi corpses have US soldiers abused? How many point-blank executions have US soldiers taken part in? How many corpses have we hung from bridges?

Originally posted by Rogerm60:

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What cases? I have seen released prisoners who say they they were reasonably well treated by their Iraqi captors.

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Go back to when the supply convoy was attacked and the POW's were filmed by Iraqis. Several had execution-style gunshot wounds to their heads. Does this qualify as humane treatment in your book, the execution of POW's? I also recall reports that Shoshanna Johnson was being slapped and beaten about until her helmet flew off. They stopped only after figuring out she was a woman.

Originally posted by Rogerm60:

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I will have to look around for some info on this. Or if you have some specific info, please share. I would hate to think supposition is enough for your attacks.

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I think I just did share and it can easily be found by digging around in various news archives on the Web, if one only cares to look.

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My point seems self evident. Collateral damage.

Your statements imply that Iraqis who engage in gorilla warfare in the face of overwhelming forces are Terrorists, and use that supposition as if it were a legitimate reason to lower our own standards of conduct.

Iraq can be seen as fighting a legitamate National defence against an invader, just as Afghanistan fought the Russians. Most people think that their cause is the most important one. It is decidedly unwise to think that it is the only one.

I would like to think that no U.S. troops have executed or abused the corpses of the enemy. This is off the subject of torture. Asking for a number at this point is moot. Cultural differences exist that make it more likely for Iraqi's to do such things, but it unfortunately seems to be human in nature and therefor is bound to happen on our side too. If the U.S. wishes to to claim a righteous position it must endeavor to to stamp out such behavior.

Jessica Lynch
I know little of Shoshanna Johnson except that she thought that the filming of herself and other POWs was wrong, and that she thinks our Military is treating her unfairly in regards to her disability pay.

I would hope that dispite my opinions of which you know few, you know better than to think me "profoundly thick-headed"

Originally posted by bishop375:

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You know, something I never even thought of... what's to say Ghadafi isn't dismantling the WMD that were shipped to HIM during this whole ordeal, just to save his own @$$?

I'm not all that familiar with the polticial face of Lybia... were they Hussein backers?

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Now there's a whale of a conspiracy theory! I'll bet my last dollar that the equipment and agents that Libya had were certainly their own, though. Those UN sanctions certainly did some good in Libya, too, since just about every intelligence agency around the globe was stunned at the advancement and size of the Libyan WMD program...

I honestly have no clue about Libyan relations with any Middle-Eastern governments (I can barely recall hearing much of anything about them since the late '80s). Ever since some of his family was killed when Reagan sent over those F-111s to bomb the Hell out of his compounds in '86, he's kept a fairly low profile, at least on the international stage.

Some of Qadaffi's political aims were very similar to Hussein's in terms of Arab Nationalism, but that's exhausted my knowledge on the man and the state of Libya these days.

Originally posted by Rogerm60:

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My point seems self evident. Collateral damage.

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Off to a fine start: the link doesn't work. EDIT: I see it's fixed now. Looks similar to pics of IED or mortar damage I've seen that insurgents are causing innocents...

Such is the reality of war. It's horrible and never pretty, though is it more humane to main and injure a few hundred civilians or leave and put millions of Iraqi's under the threat of chaos and certain civil war which will amount to 10x the number of casualties, just so the US can take the "high ground" and claim to not have directly caused any further civilian casualties?

I hope the answer is readily apparent...

Originally posted by Rogerm60:

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Your statements imply that Iraqis who engage in gorilla warfare in the face of overwhelming forces are Terrorists, and use that supposition as if it were a legitimate reason to lower our own standards of conduct.

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ter·ror·ist (trr-st) n. - One that engages in acts or an act of terrorism.

Well, the definition seems to fit those that are firing at our troops behind human shields, indiscriminately setting off explosives, bombing hotels and lobbing mortar rounds into highly-populated areas with little thought towards the loss of life, kidnapping soliders and civilians...

Guerilla, terrorist; can you seriously try to sit here and mark the difference between the two and keep a straight face? You are aware of foreigners (Syrians and Jordanians, as well as Al-Qaeda operatives) coming into Iraq for the sole purpose of causing harm to our troops and anyone who supports them right?

Finally, I've alluded to NOTHING that states that we should lower our standards of prisoner treatment. How in the Hell did you come up with that piece of work?

Originally posted by Rogerm60:

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Iraq can be seen as fighting a legitamate National defence against an invader, just as Afghanistan fought the Russians.

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Pure and utter BS. Read up on why the Russians invaded Afghanistan and then come back and try that statement again. The Russian invasion of Afghanistan had NOTHING to do with protection, WMD, terrorism or even freedom. It had to do with their paranoia of it becoming another US lackey in Asia...

Furthermore, if the bulk of the population was taking up arms against Coalition troops, I'd say you would have a point. Given the SOLID fact that it's small but fiercely determined pockets of Hussein loyalists and/or Shi'ite extremists, this "legitimate" national defence argument in which the majority of the population in Iraq detests more than the US presence in their country is a heap of feces.

Originally posted by Rogerm60:

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Most people think that their cause is the most important one. It is decidedly unwise to think that it is the only one.

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...and even less wise to believe that most US causes are the wrong ones, given the circumstanes and history behind those causes.

Originally posted by Rogerm60:

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I would like to think that no U.S. troops have executed or abused the corpses of the enemy.

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I'm sure some has cropped up, though our troops aren't taught that actions like this are the norm. Far from it.

Originally posted by Rogerm60:

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This is off the subject of torture. Asking for a number at this point is moot. Cultural differences exist that make it more likely for Iraqi's to do such things, but it unfortunately seems to be human in nature and therefor is bound to happen on our side too. If the U.S. wishes to to claim a righteous position it must endeavor to to stamp out such behavior.

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Stuff like this comes under review in the US military. I seriously doubt an eye would be batted at such behavior in the Republican Guard or any former Iraqi military outfit, for cultural reasons you yourself mention...

Originally posted by Rogerm60:

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Jessica Lynch

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Nice bit of propaganda there. Interesting that it doesn't mention weapons and military equipment being stored in the hospital by Iraqi troops and them working with the hospital staff until they fled, like numerous other articles have mentioned. Feel free to plow through any number of them found through Google...

Originally posted by Rogerm60:

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...I would hope that dispite my opinions of which you know few, you know better than to think me "profoundly thick-headed"

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If the shoe fits, wear it, as I said that IF one held the belief that US activities in Iraq are being equivocated as "terrorist" actions, then one has a profoundly thick-headed understanding of things...

This pseudo-philosophical circle jerk is potentially endless. I'm sure you could dig up an article on how some Iraqi family felt that US troops crashing through their door represented a "terrorist" action and extrapolate it to an absurd level of involvement.

That's all fine and dandy, but it doesn't change the fact that US troops are held to a higher standard and level of morality in terms of prisoner treatment than most any other country on this planet, including Iraq and it shows up on a DAILY basis (except when the media needs to make a point). Find me mass abuses that are the RULE instead of the EXCEPTION awith US troops on treatment of prisoners and I'll consider your position with gusto.