|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,037
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,037 |
Originally posted by sigma:
Quote:
So, what was the horrific we (read Bush, the military, etc) did this time?
There's evidence (photographs and military charges) that some American soldiers were abusing (torturing, even) inmates in an Iraqi prison.
And they should be prosecuted, just the way the system suggests. From the officer in charge of that facility down to the people doing the bad things.
Read this...I agree with it 100%. http://iraqnow.blogspot.com/2004_04_01_iraqnow_archive.html#108330039016490297
"Think of it, if you like, as a librarian with a G-string under the tweed." Clarkson on the Mondeo.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,132
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,132 |
In the military the soldiers do what they are told to do. Somebody has to take the fall and those soldiers are the ones who will be take the fall. The problem goes further up the chain of command but people in the military don't talk. The lowest ranking soldiers have been set up to take the fall and there is nothing they can do about it. That's the way government works. Instead of looking at the soldiers they should be going through the chain of command. The person who reported the problem will probably regret making that decision (classified information).
It's politics as usual.
Last edited by Con_touring; 04/30/04 03:23 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,667
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,667 |
Originally posted by Con_touring:
Somebody has to take the fall and those soldiers are the ones who will be take the fall. The problem goes further up the chain of command but people in the military don't talk. The lowest ranking soldiers have been set up to take the fall and there is nothing they can do about it. That's the way government works.
That's also the way organizd crime works too.....
hmmm......
Diesel owns you
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,469
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,469 |
Originally posted by sigma:
Quote:
So, what was the horrific we (read Bush, the military, etc) did this time?
There's evidence (photographs and military charges) that some American soldiers were abusing (torturing, even) inmates in an Iraqi prison.
I guess I would speculate this is not widespread. It seems to me the US took pains to set the tone that we would not torture...recall the LtCol that fired his gun next to a prisoner to scare him into giving info that would later save his unit. They prosecuted that very "borderline" case pretty harshly. I think they took pains in Gitmo, Cuba to be pretty humane given the circumstances.
I do not doubt some instance of torture may have occured (given the COMPLETE lack of rules our opposition was playing by)..just doubt it was widespread, high level sanctioned cruelty for crueltys sake..
1999 Amazon Green SVT Contour (#554/2760)
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."
-Soren Kierkegaard (as posted by Jato)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,392
Addicted CEG\'er
|
|
Addicted CEG\'er
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,392 |
Originally posted by Dan Nixon:
I guess I would speculate this is not widespread.
what are you talking about? don't you know seeing it once on tv means that it's happening all the time??
sheesh! 
02 Mustang GT... Tuned by Nelsons. Low 12's, anyone? 
.....______
___|______\_____
|/-\_________/-\_|
.\_/...............\_/
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,037
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,037 |
Originally posted by Con_touring:
In the military the soldiers do what they are told to do. Somebody has to take the fall and those soldiers are the ones who will be take the fall. The problem goes further up the chain of command but people in the military don't talk.
Oh, what a load. This is a case of relatively young troops in a situation where they've got the power and apparently, the time, and they were doing dumb stuff that really, they should have known not to do. And their superiors should have been more aware of it and/or stopping it before it got to be the big joke that the grunts thought it was. There's plenty of discipline to be handed out, but don't pretend like those kids were playing stupid games with these prisoners because they were TOLD to.
"Think of it, if you like, as a librarian with a G-string under the tweed." Clarkson on the Mondeo.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,220
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,220 |
Quote:
I do not doubt some instance of torture may have occured (given the COMPLETE lack of rules our opposition was playing by)..just doubt it was widespread, high level sanctioned cruelty for crueltys sake..
It wasn't. It was a few soldiers in one particular prison. But that's all it takes, really.
Needless to say one photo on the front page of Iraqi newspapers speaks a lot, especially when the majority was already beliving we're doing more harm there than good.
2003 Mazda6s 3.0L MTX
Webpage
2004 Mazda3s 2.3L ATX
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,132
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,132 |
Originally posted by Jeb Hoge:
Originally posted by Con_touring:
In the military the soldiers do what they are told to do. Somebody has to take the fall and those soldiers are the ones who will be take the fall. The problem goes further up the chain of command but people in the military don't talk.
Oh, what a load. This is a case of relatively young troops in a situation where they've got the power and apparently, the time, and they were doing dumb stuff that really, they should have known not to do. And their superiors should have been more aware of it and/or stopping it before it got to be the big joke that the grunts thought it was. There's plenty of discipline to be handed out, but don't pretend like those kids were playing stupid games with these prisoners because they were TOLD to.
I would appreciate it if you do not take what I said out of context;
Here is what I said;
In the military the soldiers do what they are told to do. Somebody has to take the fall and those soldiers are the ones who will be take the fall. The problem goes further up the chain of command but people in the military don't talk. The lowest ranking soldiers have been set up to take the fall and there is nothing they can do about it. That's the way government works. Instead of looking at the soldiers they should be going through the chain of command. The person who reported the problem will probably regret making that decision (classified information).
It's politics as usual.
Of course their supervisor knew what they were doing. Why would they not know? The news article specifically said that the soldiers were encouraged by the interrogators to get the prisoners in the mood for interrogation. One prisoner was supposedly beat to death by the interrogator. I don't think they would make that up. I watched the news story.
I support the military 100 percent but their supervisor should have had enough sense to rein them in if they were out of control.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 3,290
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 3,290 |
Originally posted by PackRat:
Personally, I don't give a [censored] what you think.
Don't piss off us original CEGers. I see you registered a whole day after me, newbie.
E0 #36
'95 Ranger
'82 Honda CX500
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,037
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,037 |
The person who reported the problem was a civilian.
"Think of it, if you like, as a librarian with a G-string under the tweed." Clarkson on the Mondeo.
|
|
|
|
|
