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Joined: Sep 2000
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I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
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I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
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This is the biggest obstacle so far for the Wings. Yzerman is the heart of the team and led those previous teams to the cup. They need people to step up now. Calgary has outplayed Detroit in every game this series. If not for Cujo, this series would be over.
"If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit"
-Mitch Hedberg
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CEG\'er
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Originally posted by dnewma04:
This is the biggest obstacle so far for the Wings. Yzerman is the heart of the team and led those previous teams to the cup. They need people to step up now. Calgary has outplayed Detroit in every game this series. If not for Cujo, this series would be over.
You hit the nail on the head with your last statement (not the one I quoted here) as I must agree, it's not the die hard fans their trying to win over
As for the statement above...if not for Cujo, the series would be over. I did, after all, name my son after him.  (Well him and John Cullen, if any of you remember him...)
Tell you what though...I have a new respect for Calgary. I can't recall ever seeing a team break out of their own zone so fast. Really fun to watch...
Joey
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Originally posted by dnewma04:
If all you canadian fans are such die hard fans, what happened to Jets and the Nordiques? Can't make money there, so they move them to states where the bandwagon fans keep them afloat.
Hmmmmm 
This statement man you have no idea how wrong that is.....
The teams weren't moved because of lack of fan support. They moved because other US city's offered a more lucrative deal than the city's they came from.
The real problem is the value of the US$ vs CDN$. That's the real reason we lose Canadian teams.
We have to pay all our players in US$ and this adds a more challenging problem on how to make up the difference through revenues. If the Jets stayed in Winnipeg your damn skippy they would've been better off...
Pittisburgh, Phoniex, Carolina etc can't get fans into the arena, but we had no problem filling them.
Minnesota didn't leave for Dallas because of lack of fan support they left cause the owner was greedy!
Originally posted by dnewma04:
I can't believe you even compared Hockey to football...there is no comparison. Hockey is a like JV sport compared to a professional sport in football. Hockey is a great number 6 sport behind the NFL, NBA, MLB, NCAA Football and Basketball.
I compared the Superbowl only as an example. If the Superbowl gets those type of ratings no matter who's playing then any sport should be able to do the same.
It's upto the NHL to market the game to bring it up to that level.
I agree that large market teams would be what the NHL/fans would want in the finals, but with so many teams in the league it won't happen.
Having tons of money (large market) to buy a great team doesn't work.
The coach and player chemistry does, so it's unpredictable as to who will win to be there.
If you always want the large market teams to be in the stanley cup final then get it back to the original 6 or 8.
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Joined: Sep 2000
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I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
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I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
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Originally posted by chongo:
Originally posted by dnewma04:
If all you canadian fans are such die hard fans, what happened to Jets and the Nordiques? Can't make money there, so they move them to states where the bandwagon fans keep them afloat.
Hmmmmm
This statement man you have no idea how wrong that is.....
The teams weren't moved because of lack of fan support. They moved because other US city's offered a more lucrative deal than the city's they came from.
Let's see, they moved because it wasn't economically viable to stay...hmmm...sounds like what I said. Can't afford to keep the teams. You have Ottawa who is one of the top 3-4 teams in the league, and they had weeks last year where the team couldn't pay their players. Then you have Edmonton, who let's any talent they develop go sign with another team because they can't afford to keep them....whether it's the Canadian dollar or lack of advertising revenue, or just ownership and cities not committed to keeping the teams, the fact remains that it was based on financial reasons.
Quote:
The real problem is the value of the US$ vs CDN$. That's the real reason we lose Canadian teams.
We have to pay all our players in US$ and this adds a more challenging problem on how to make up the difference through revenues. If the Jets stayed in Winnipeg your damn skippy they would've been better off...
How is the currency exchange the problem? It's just a currency conversion and anyone with a single high school level accounting class should understand that if you have pay employees in USD, then you account for the conversion in all other aspects of business. If it takes 40.00 USD tickets, you don't sell them for 40.00 CD.
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Pittisburgh, Phoniex, Carolina etc can't get fans into the arena, but we had no problem filling them.
Minnesota didn't leave for Dallas because of lack of fan support they left cause the owner was greedy!
No doubt there is greed in the sports business...again, part of economics...Do we make just enough in Minnesota or do we move to Dallas for a lot more money and incentives. You'd be a fool to stay.
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I compared the Superbowl only as an example. If the Superbowl gets those type of ratings no matter who's playing then any sport should be able to do the same.
It's upto the NHL to market the game to bring it up to that level.
And I completely disagree with any other sport comparing to the NFL or Super Bowl. The World Series and NBA finals ratings vary drastically depending on the teams playing. They can't and won't in the foreseeable future. The NHL can only hope for a more solid 4th place in pro sports. The NHL gets absolutely atrocious shares when they are on TV and most of the networks aren't offering much to get dead air. Actually, the first priority for the NHL is continued existence, once they get around that issue, then they can worry about marketing it more successfully.
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I agree that large market teams would be what the NHL/fans would want in the finals, but with so many teams in the league it won't happen.
Having tons of money (large market) to buy a great team doesn't work.
The coach and player chemistry does, so it's unpredictable as to who will win to be there.
If you always want the large market teams to be in the stanley cup final then get it back to the original 6 or 8.
The only unpredictable teams in the last 10 years have been Carolina, Buffalo and Anaheim. And all of them didn't do much for ratings, even with Detroit, Dallas, and NJ on the other side.
I guess my main point is that as much as I love hockey, it will always be a fringe sport with a small but loyal fanbase. It will NEVER be the NBA or even MLB...and it certainly can't ever hope to even remotely compare to the NFL. I love your idea of reducing the number of teams. Get rid of half of the teams, get rid of the instigating rule, make goalie's pads smaller, more intense training for referees, and market it only to the diehards. Expansion into a bigger market has failed and alienated the true fans.
"If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit"
-Mitch Hedberg
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I think that it does not have to do with people enjoying the sports, but being able to play it either now or when they were a kid. Think about it. Football costs just that a football, base ball costs a ball,bat and glove and in some cases you just need a stick and a ball. Hockey on the other hand is much more expensive in comparison to the others. Another thing that plays a role is the fact that the arena cannot hold as many fans in comparison to other sports. That drastically cuts the revenue.
As for your reasoning for canadian teams leaving canada, they would have stayed there if the Can$ was worth more. Don't you think that if the US$ was less than the CAN$ they would move for the same reason? the fans would pay 2 times as much for the same seats. that makes things harder when the fans can't always afford the "cheap" seats.
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I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
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I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
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Originally posted by johnny hennessy:
I think that it does not have to do with people enjoying the sports, but being able to play it either now or when they were a kid. Think about it. Football costs just that a football, base ball costs a ball,bat and glove and in some cases you just need a stick and a ball. Hockey on the other hand is much more expensive in comparison to the others. Another thing that plays a role is the fact that the arena cannot hold as many fans in comparison to other sports. That drastically cuts the revenue.
It has very little to do with stadium capacity, basketball has similar and they thrive. Baseball does have an inherent advantage. Just for perspective, football stadiums on average hold 65-70k, with 8 home games. NHL venues average between 15 and 20. 41 games times 15k = 615,000. 8 home games x 70k = 560000. It comes down to one thing, TV advertising revenue. This is why the NHL tries to expand it's fan base, and cringes when Anaheim makes it to the finals. It is also why small market teams struggle in general. Besides, NHL players are ridiculously over paid which is another reason why the NHL is in so much trouble.
You have a very valid point about cost to play, equipment and ice time are expensive and ice availability is even more challenging.
"If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit"
-Mitch Hedberg
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I don't think that NHL players are overpaid in comparison to other sports. I belive for the abuse they take they are underpaid. as well the average salary for the NHL is around $600K where as the MLB is 800K and basketball is close to 1 mill. and I believe that in the NBA there is more seats than the NHL because there are floor seats.
As for the amount of games and seats available for the season of football and hockey I see your point but aren't football seats a whole lot more than hockey seats?
Built April 18th 1998 #5770 of 6535
Reborn: July 11, 2004 3L and gone again 12/13/2005
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I don't have too much to add to this thread other than
LET'S ... GO ... RED ... WINGS !!!!!!
~~~~~~~ Phil 
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Originally posted by johnny hennessy:
aren't football seats a whole lot more than hockey seats?
Certainly not in detroit! I think its something like $70 for the standing room only tickets. But they manage to sell out every game.
Oh and on this whole attendence/ fan base leaving etc... just read this
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Originally posted by dnewma04:
This is the biggest obstacle so far for the Wings. Yzerman is the heart of the team and led those previous teams to the cup. They need people to step up now. Calgary has outplayed Detroit in every game this series. If not for Cujo, this series would be over.
Your first statement is correct. But lasty if your going to say that without Wings w/ out Kujo, than you mine as well say Flames without Kipersal(sp  ). Wings have out shot them in every game. Granite the Flames have beed playing good(not great, just consistent), but Detroit has times were they simply have dominated, for example the last 12min of the first period all the way to when Stevie got hurt (end of second). I just hope that the vets will step up for Stevie, its the least they can do. GO WINGS!!
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