|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,325
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,325 |
Originally posted by {Kontofosho}:
ISway barswork on proportion. You don't really want to loosed anything you should only be stiffening. So instead of fitting a smaller front bar, which would give more roll, you want a larger rear bar.
C-SVT has a unique 19mm front and a 19mm rear bar. Early SE's had 20mm front / 19mm rear. Late SE's had 20mm front / 18mm rear.
I guess compared to late SE's SVT upped the rear and downed the front, but compared to the early cars they just downsized the front.
My point in the first post was he had it backwards on what upsizing the rear bar does.
97 Contour SE MTX
K&N 3530, UR UDP, 19# Injectors, mystery mod, FMS wires, Fordchip.com chip, SVT: TB, Flywheel, clutch, exhaust
04 Grand Caravan SXT
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,693
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,693 |
I hope I'm not contributing fuel to this flame war, but I'll toss in my thoughts on alignment.
The more the negative camber, the better the car handles. At some point, though, tire wear becomes an issue. Negative camber tends to wear the inside edges of the tire. If you are after tire wear with reasonable handling, try to get camber about -.25 to -.50. When you start to get much over -1.00 you start to get tire wear issues. The wider the tire, the greater the problem. If you are setting the car up for autocrossing or some sort of handling competition, go for as much negative camber as you can get (up to about -2.500), but don't expect good tire life.
Within reason, positive caster is very desirable. It give the car more stability in that the steering wheel tends to center more quickly after turns. It also promotes the car going down the road streight. At some point, too much positive caster will make the steering seem like there is not enough power steering assist. Also, excessive positive caster can induce vibrations under some conditions. The vibration can be so violent that it can break steering and suspension parts. Ford had a recall on F series trucks in the late 80's over this issue and reduced the caster to lessen this tendency. On a Contour, I think it would be hard to get enough positive caster to be harmful. Ideal in my mind would be near +2.00 degrees.
My experience with toe on Contours is that the front should be as close to 0 as possible while still being slightly positive (towed out) and the rear should be as close to 0 as possible while still being slightly negative (towed in).
The concept of the toe setting is that the wheels should be streight ahead when the car is running down the road. On rear wheel drive cars, that usually means slight tow in when stopped. On front wheel drive cars that usually means slight tow out when stopped.
No matter what you do, there is usually some compromises that need to be made when aligning a car. Often there is not as much adjustability as you might like to have. Often you must choose between optimal tire wear and optimal handling. It helps to understand the dynamics of the steering and suspension systems as you sort through it.
Jim Johnson
98 SVT
03 Escape Limited
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,602
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,602 |
Originally posted by ScottK:
C-SVT has a unique 19mm front and a 19mm rear bar. Early SE's had 20mm front / 19mm rear. Late SE's had 20mm front / 18mm rear.
One correction.
Only the 95-97 SE's and all SVT's have the 19mm rear bar.
All other cars have a 16mm rear bar.
~~~
Reiterating the front:
19mm for SVT's.
20mm for everything else.
2000 SVT #674
13.47 @ 102 - All Motor!
It was not broke; Yet I fixed it anyway.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,859
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,859 |
Originally posted by Big Jim:
Within reason, positive caster is very desirable. It give the car more stability in that the steering wheel tends to center more quickly after turns. It also promotes the car going down the road streight. At some point, too much positive caster will make the steering seem like there is not enough power steering assist. Also, excessive positive caster can induce vibrations under some conditions. The vibration can be so violent that it can break steering and suspension parts. Ford had a recall on F series trucks in the late 80's over this issue and reduced the caster to lessen this tendency. On a Contour, I think it would be hard to get enough positive caster to be harmful. Ideal in my mind would be near +2.00 degrees.
This is totaly true. Steering gears are tuned and built with caster values in mind and can handle only so much. But I believe your right, you will never reach that limit on a tour. This was not meant to be a flame war, but have to correct people about false info. No harm done either way. 
'99 Silver svt
For sale
19" Axis Neo wheels
3.0 parts, pre-98 trunk,
Check classifieds
bp.powell@comcast.net
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,325
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,325 |
Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Originally posted by ScottK:
C-SVT has a unique 19mm front and a 19mm rear bar. Early SE's had 20mm front / 19mm rear. Late SE's had 20mm front / 18mm rear.
One correction.
Only the 95-97 SE's and all SVT's have the 19mm rear bar.
All other cars have a 16mm rear bar.
~~~
Reiterating the front:
19mm for SVT's.
20mm for everything else.
I think 16 is only for base 4 cyl models - the faqq (correct???) lists this:
Suspension specs pre-1998
F spring R spring F strut R strut F bar R bar
GL/LX 4-cyl 18 kn/m 16 kn/m base base 20mm(.79) 17mm(.67)
GL/LX 6-cyl 20 kn/m 16 kn/m base base 20mm(.79) 17mm(.67)
SE 24 kn/m 21 kn/m sport sport 20mm(.79) 19mm(.75)
Suspension specs 1998
GL/LX 4-cyl 18 kn/m 16 kn/m base base 20mm(.79) 17mm(.67)
GL/LX 6-cyl 20 kn/m 16 kn/m base base 20mm(.79) 17mm(.67)
SE 20 kn/m 16 kn/m sport sport 20mm(.79) 19mm(.75)
Suspension specs 1998.5
LX 4-cyl 18 kn/m 16 kn/m base base 20mm(.79) 16mm(.63)
LX 6-cyl 20 kn/m 16 kn/m base base 20mm(.79) 17mm(.67)
SE 4-cyl 18 kn/m 16 kn/m base base 20mm(.79) 18mm(.71)
SE 6-cyl 20 kn/m 16 kn/m sport sport 20mm(.79) 18mm(.71)
Not sure if it's 100% accurate?
97 Contour SE MTX
K&N 3530, UR UDP, 19# Injectors, mystery mod, FMS wires, Fordchip.com chip, SVT: TB, Flywheel, clutch, exhaust
04 Grand Caravan SXT
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,602
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,602 |
Interesting.
I've never seen an 18mm bar nor a part number for it.
I do remember people saying the part number for the smaller bar (16mm) did change at some time. Maybe the new part number was a hair larger (17mm???)
2000 SVT #674
13.47 @ 102 - All Motor!
It was not broke; Yet I fixed it anyway.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,570
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
OP
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,570 |
Thanks for the input guys. I think I'll try these settings on my car for good tire wear and occasional spirited driving fun:
Camber: -1 degree
Caster: as much as possible
Front Toe: 0, maybe a touch of toe out, but barely
Thanks again, I've learned alot!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 751
Veteran CEG\'er
|
|
Veteran CEG\'er
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 751 |
Originally posted by ScottK:
Originally posted by weargle:
Get a bigger rear bar to help prevent oversteer, and watch your right foot!
Upsizing the rear sway bar induces more oversteer right?
That was a brainfart, sorry.
Whirling dervish of FFOG.
|
|
|
|
|
