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Anyone here a suspension technician? I'll be getting an allignment done soon once I get the camber/caster plates installed. I just read up on the positive/negative effects of camber and toe settings for normal street driving vs track but it was general information.
For our FWD cars (which under throttle pull the wheels forward a bit) with known understeer, what would ideal settings be for street driving (weekend spirited driver):
Front toe:
Front camber:
Rear toe:
And ideal settings for track driving (maximum twisty grip):
Front toe:
Front camber:
Rear toe:
In addition, I'm assuming caster should be as positive as possible, correct?
EDIT: Here are my references:
http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/at_010808.htm
http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html
Last edited by rkneeshaw; 03/26/04 02:49 PM.
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Originally posted by rkneeshaw:
Anyone here a suspension technician? I'll be getting an allignment done soon once I get the camber/caster plates installed. I just read up on the positive/negative effects of camber and toe settings for normal street driving vs track but it was general information.
For our FWD cars (which under throttle pull the wheels forward a bit) with known understeer, what would ideal settings be for street driving (weekend spirited driver):
Front toe:
Front camber:
Rear toe:
And ideal settings for track driving (maximum twisty grip):
Front toe:
Front camber:
Rear toe:
In addition, I'm assuming caster should be as positive as possible, correct?
EDIT: Here are my references:
http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/at_010808.htm
http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html
I have aligned everything but A Contour odly enough. But here is an idea of what your going to want. Get as much caster as you can, toe at about .1 degree, and camber around -.5 for street driving and minimal tire wear. Now I am not realy sure whats obtainable on a tour, or what the factor specs are. For track driving, increase your camber to around -1.0- to -1.5. If you frequent the track, its best to experiment different camber settings Also the wider the tires you have the more negative camber you will have to go, for street ot track versus stock wheels. Hope that helps 
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Toe: absolutely zero toe front and rear -- the rears toe out at full bump by design. You don't want to fight the car on the street by toeing out (although it helps turn in) and you definitely don't want oversteer built into the system. DO NOT LET THE TECH TALK YOU INTO TOE IN EITHER WAY!!!!!!! It'll kill your ability to rotate the car.
Camber: as much as possible, if you have zero front toe, you can go to 2.5* negative camber and still not adversely affect tire life on the street. I'm running -1.7* with whatever caster that gives me from the BAT kit.
Caster: bigger is better for higher speed stability. Factory settings are fine.
Get a bigger rear bar to help prevent oversteer, and watch your right foot!
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I thought toeing in helps keep the car going in a straight line also helps return the wheels to a straight position when returning from a turn.
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Thanks for the input guys. One more question: You mention I want absolutely 0 (or livin recommended .1 degree, I'm assuming out, and not in) toe. What about the effects of teh front drive wheels when you accellerate, doesnt that draw the toe in just a little? Is there any need to compensate for that (or as livin recommended, is the .1 degree toe recommended because of this)?
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Originally posted by contour_phoenix_when:
I thought toeing in helps keep the car going in a straight line also helps return the wheels to a straight position when returning from a turn.
It does. Which is good for soccer moms putting on lipstick while talking on a phone and disciplining kids while driving with her knees. For someone that actually *drives* a car, it's a bad thing that a) forces understeer and b) inhibits rear-end rotation (front and rear toe in respectively)
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Originally posted by rkneeshaw:
What about the effects of teh front drive wheels when you accellerate, doesnt that draw the toe in just a little?
Negative. The rear has a dynamic toe out upon bump. The front end has no such allowance due to the tie rods being inflexable. Front toe is like a Ronco Rotisserie -- set it and forget it.
(Quick definitions: Let's assume that you're in a hard right hand turn going in a circle over and over again. Your drivers side of the suspension is in "bump" meaning that the springs and struts are being compressed. The passenger side is in "droop" meaning that the suspension being allowed to decompress or raise up.)
Also: most shops will not give you rear toe out due to safety issues. Assy cars are a beeyotch to drive!
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Originally posted by weargle:
Get a bigger rear bar to help prevent oversteer, and watch your right foot!
Upsizing the rear sway bar induces more oversteer right?
C-SVT's downsized the front sway bar (it's all about front to rear stiffness) to move further away from understeer toward neutral.
97 Contour SE MTX
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ISway barswork on proportion. You don't really want to loosed anything you should only be stiffening. So instead of fitting a smaller front bar, which would give more roll, you want a larger rear bar.
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Originally posted by weargle:
Toe: absolutely zero toe front and rear -- the rears toe out at full bump by design. You don't want to fight the car on the street by toeing out (although it helps turn in) and you definitely don't want oversteer built into the system. DO NOT LET THE TECH TALK YOU INTO TOE IN EITHER WAY!!!!!!! It'll kill your ability to rotate the car.
Thats ludacris. The average person couldn't tell you the difference between 0 and .1 toe. Even some experienced drivers can not.
Camber: as much as possible, if you have zero front toe, you can go to 2.5* negative camber and still not adversely affect tire life on the street. I'm running -1.7* with whatever caster that gives me from the BAT kit.
The spec is -.55 The is a large tolerance, so for a street car that will see a lot of miles, I would not reccomned over -1.5. A zo6 used only -1.00 all around.
Get a bigger rear bar to help prevent oversteer, and watch your right foot!
Your way off, stiffeng the rear creates alot of oversteer. In fact I was talking with a Mustang engineer last week about the Aussie bar and how much oversteer it induces at higher speeds. Still great for autocrossing though
Originally posted by rkneeshaw:
Thanks for the input guys. One more question: You mention I want absolutely 0 (or livin recommended .1 degree, I'm assuming out, and not in) toe. What about the effects of teh front drive wheels when you accellerate, doesnt that draw the toe in just a little? Is there any need to compensate for that (or as livin recommended, is the .1 degree toe recommended because of this)?
A lot can have to do with how much you have changed your suspension around i.e. stiffer springs, bushings etc.. I just double checked the factory toe settings in the front and it calls for -.17. Thats for contours generaly soft suspension in the front. Toe does change in the front and rear. Its called ride toe. Is tested by oems on a very expensive machines and they spend countless hours trying to level that out. I also checked the specs of a well tuned perfoming FWD car, tuned for handling(custom spec), they to request .1 toe and the car handles great.
'99 Silver svt
For sale
19" Axis Neo wheels
3.0 parts, pre-98 trunk,
Check classifieds
bp.powell@comcast.net
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