First off, thank you to all those that have added to make this a healthy discussion. All, please try to refrain from personal attacks as this has all in all been a very informative discussion. I would hate to see this thread locked over a few choice threads.

Originally posted by JaTo:

Redefining a religious and secular union whose very definition that has withstood millenia of change is messing something that has been commonly held by religions and secular/religions/pagan governments of the world throughout time. In short, marriage is religious and could be considered secular as well (not all that are married observe any religious practice or notion); it doesn't change the fact that the very definition of "marriage" has been known to be (1) man and (1) woman in secular, pagan or the most religiously-devout Christian civilizations that have existed on this planet.

In short, let's call something different than marriage, well, something different than marriage and give it the same status and rights as observed by law, i.e, civil unions, joinings, bonding, pairing, whatever, just call it something different because it is.

I totally agree that under current US law, gays and lesbians are discriminated against. I think this can be easily fixed without destroying/changing an institution that has ages of heritage behind it and alienating those with strongly-held religious beliefs.

Just call it something different than marriage and offer up the same rights, protection and punishment under law. I'm repeating myself here; let me know if I've misunderstood or misrepresented any point you were trying to make.



Jato, I understand your reasoning behind calling the it a civil union. However, isn't seperate hardly ever equal in this country? I fear that no matter how you try to spin it, it will always be seen as something less than a marriage. It is for this reason that I offer up another possible solution.

What would you think about calling all "marriages" as they are today as Civil Unions for legal and secular unions. As so many of our laws are tied to marriage, why not change this word throughout the lawbooks to Civil Union. Marriage, therefore, would be reserved for all religious or other spiritual unions. The government would no longer offer marriage licences, but rather ONLY civil union licences.

In addition, I must argue the point of past verse present. I understand that throughout much of our history marriage has lasted and is understood to be a union between man and woman, and that this is one of the longest held traditions in our history. However, this does not necessarily mean that it is appropriate for our society at this time. There are many traditions/rituals that took place in our past that would clearly be seen as savage in todays society. Is it possible that this is a tradition that may need to adapt to our modern society? I would like to hear your point of view on this?


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