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Originally posted by daenku32:
Originally posted by 99SESPORT:
And for those who ask me to take the Bible out, then you might as well change our timeline that we use, might as well get rid of America because it is based on Biblical principles, get rid of the church which has basically kept the country together in times of need and most important, you might as well rip the soul out of everybody and allow us all to walk around as individualistic monsters who know nothing of our neighbor. You can also take out all the laws we have because without the Bible, without the truth in the Bible, our laws mean nothing. Why is it wrong to murder? Because in the beginning God said so. Why is it wrong to steal? Because in the beginning God said so. So, NO, I will not remove my "religion" from my discussion as the religion is the foundational truth behind our country, our laws, and our families.
I disagree. Our Constitution overrides Bible. If there is a disagree between the two (ie. Atheism, Constitution says it's OK, Bible say it's wrong.), Constitution wins. Always.
I don't need a God to tell me what is wrong. Stealing and Murder are pretty obvious. But of course that's why you used them as an examples for biblical morality. Not something that is limited to the religion alone.
Wow, the constitution overrides what it is based on. So what you are saying is that society is progressive, kind of Darwinian in theory I suppose. As we go on, we get smarter and are able to override God? I don't think so. God wrote the Bible through very faithful men, and that has been proven over and over again. Constitution unfortunately does not win every time. God is right, man is fallible.
Stealing and murder, let's step away from them. Incest? Wrong or not? NAMBLA, boys and men, right or wrong? Pronography, lust, adultery etc? Right or wrong. How about disrespect of parents? Infancticide? Abortion? I could go on and on, but the simple fact is, is that it is all wrong, and all immoral, including homosexuality. How about lying? IMMORAL. How about cheating? Same thing, and the list goes on and on and on and on and on. They are all in the Bible. The truths we live by are found in the Bible, why? BECAUSE BIBLICAL PRINCIPLES WORK!! That's why, regardless of a "Constitution" or "Bill of Rights." As I wrote just a second ago, our government is not our final judge, like most would like to forget.
Originally posted by daenku32:
If you are attempting to convince us otherwise, you need something that consists of things we BOTH already consider as facts. Otherwise your points are lost.
What is Right is treating people equal. Homosexuals are not criminals. No matter WHAT your Bible might say.
No, homosexuals are very nice people, and are in fact very good dressers, and they are very stylish. We can treat people equal without justifying their sins. We should treat all people, including the criminals as humans. Homosexuals fall in the "all" people category. What we should not do, is give them justification, or the ability to believe they are doing the right thing, because they aren't. There might be a reason why history is the way it is.
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b0x @dm1n
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Originally posted by 99SESPORT:
Originally posted by daenku32:
Originally posted by 99SESPORT:
And for those who ask me to take the Bible out, then you might as well change our timeline that we use, might as well get rid of America because it is based on Biblical principles, get rid of the church which has basically kept the country together in times of need and most important, you might as well rip the soul out of everybody and allow us all to walk around as individualistic monsters who know nothing of our neighbor. You can also take out all the laws we have because without the Bible, without the truth in the Bible, our laws mean nothing. Why is it wrong to murder? Because in the beginning God said so. Why is it wrong to steal? Because in the beginning God said so. So, NO, I will not remove my "religion" from my discussion as the religion is the foundational truth behind our country, our laws, and our families.
I disagree. Our Constitution overrides Bible. If there is a disagree between the two (ie. Atheism, Constitution says it's OK, Bible say it's wrong.), Constitution wins. Always.
I don't need a God to tell me what is wrong. Stealing and Murder are pretty obvious. But of course that's why you used them as an examples for biblical morality. Not something that is limited to the religion alone.
Wow, the constitution overrides what it is based on. So what you are saying is that society is progressive, kind of Darwinian in theory I suppose. As we go on, we get smarter and are able to override God? I don't think so. God wrote the Bible through very faithful men, and that has been proven over and over again. Constitution unfortunately does not win every time. God is right, man is fallible.
Stealing and murder, let's step away from them. Incest? Wrong or not? NAMBLA, boys and men, right or wrong? Pronography, lust, adultery etc? Right or wrong. How about disrespect of parents? Infancticide? Abortion? I could go on and on, but the simple fact is, is that it is all wrong, and all immoral, including homosexuality. How about lying? IMMORAL. How about cheating? Same thing, and the list goes on and on and on and on and on. They are all in the Bible. The truths we live by are found in the Bible, why? BECAUSE BIBLICAL PRINCIPLES WORK!! That's why, regardless of a "Constitution" or "Bill of Rights." As I wrote just a second ago, our government is not our final judge, like most would like to forget.
Originally posted by daenku32:
If you are attempting to convince us otherwise, you need something that consists of things we BOTH already consider as facts. Otherwise your points are lost.
What is Right is treating people equal. Homosexuals are not criminals. No matter WHAT your Bible might say.
No, homosexuals are very nice people, and are in fact very good dressers, and they are very stylish. We can treat people equal without justifying their sins. We should treat all people, including the criminals as humans. Homosexuals fall in the "all" people category. What we should not do, is give them justification, or the ability to believe they are doing the right thing, because they aren't. There might be a reason why history is the way it is.
Plano's not far from Waco is it!
To believe the Constitution was built on the bible is just plain ludicrous.
So many of your "facts" are opinions it's sick. Here's a real fact for you, science has proven homosexual tendencies in other species. See as humans are the only one's with the ability to make choices and your strong belief in God, he created them with those tendencies.
-Andy
Andy W.
The problem with America is stupidity.
I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment
for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety
labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
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Originally posted by 99SESPORT:
They have chosen to specifically pick and choose verses from the Bible.
Boy, that sounds familiar.  Ask 10 people about their interpretation of the Bible, and you'll get 10 different answers. The bottom line IMO is this: why should these people be denied the same rights as others have? I still haven't seen anyone give a solid reason other than "My God says it's a sin" and "because it's wrong"...
2000 SVT Contour -- SOLD! New car coming soon...
1980 Triumph TR7 -- Needs a new home...
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Wow im in the same category as a criminal.. haha. As for having kids i think i would be a damn good parent one day.. i'll just learn from my str8 parents mistakes. It's funny how some people on here are talking about us like we aren't here? and .. stating what they think is right for us and how we became who we are?... social influence did not make me choose.. my mom wasn't saying BE GAY.. i knew what i wanted as soon as i was aware of my sexual desires. The only way you can know how it's like is if you are... oh well
where is there an all wheel drive dyno in ny? 
All this talk is making me feel like whooping contour (wait let me censor myself) BLEEP! hahaha.
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Originally posted by 99SESPORT:
...Homosexuals on the other hand are living a life of sin. They have chosen to specifically pick and choose verses from the Bible. There are those here that say that it isn't mentioned much, that it's just a small thing, 10% or less, but the point is, is that the Bible mentions it specifically as being a sin. It is unnatural, for 1)obvious reasons and 2) because God said so...
Again, you have to understand the complete tone and topic discussed in each book, not just take pieces of it and run with it. In that case, Eqyptians would still be a damned people...and no, the Bible doesn't unequivocally state homosexuality is a sin. It's been up for lively debate for quite some time, as have a number of other topics that the Bible is about as clear as mud on...
All of this has me asking if you are familiar with how the Bible came into existance. How oral stories were finally transcribed into Old and New Testament books and how many other works were left out and why they were left out? How it took centuries for this process to take place and how that many of the books that were left out contradicted some of the edicts and history in the New Testament? How councils were set up by the Church to decide what particular "brand" of written scripture would be spilt forth among the masses, thereby omitting any documents or writings contradictory towards their wishes?
The Bible wasn't faxed to us from Heaven. It was written by divinely inspired men, fallable and imperfect and compiled by a religious and political force in the very first part of the millenia through a process that took centuries.
I have and do keep the faith, but somewhere along the line wisdom and common sense has to kick in as well. I'm fairly certain God didn't give the human race these gifts for us to simply turn them off in the face of religious bigotry, self-righteous zeal and intolerance that seems to border on the absurd.
JaTo
e-Tough Guy
Missouri City, TX
99 Contour SVT
#143/2760
00 Corvette Coupe
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Originally posted by svtcarboy:
Originally posted by 96RedSE5Sp:
Originally posted by Contouraholic:
So now the question becomes: "What's in our water?"
For one thing, not as much arsenic as the Bush Adminstration would like.
Bush and his buddies in the chemical industry are also doing their damndest to make sure we all get our minimum daily requirements of MTBEs.
Well, Arsenic can have its benefits... Victorian men used arsenic as a precursor to Viagra and women used it to enhance their complexions (paler skin and rosier cheeks). It was frequently distilled by boiling flypapers.
My aunt has a candy recipe that calls for arsenic. When she could no longer get it, the candy wasn't ever right after that...
Did you get that from the EPA website?
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Originally posted by 99SESPORT:
The constitution and Bill of Rights were based on truths set in stone in scripture, the Bible. Our founding fathers made it clear that without God and without the truths in the Bible, our country would be indeed going down the downward spiral to a deep dark grave. (
OK, I'm guessing that you've never actually read our Constitution.
Again, I ask you to explain why our very religious founding fathers, in drafting what they knew was to be one of the most important documents in the history of the planet, did not include ANY reference to Jesus or Christianity. The only two references to religion in the entire constitution are a prohibition on requiring federal offices from requiring religious oaths and the prohibition on the establishment of a national religion in the 1st amendment.
And please tell me from what scripture did our founding fathers get the idea of a bicameral legislature?
What scripture gives us the principal of checks and balances between three parts of government - one to make the laws, one to interpret the laws and one to enforce the laws? Is this analagous to the holy trinity? Does The Father have veto power over The Son and The Holy Ghost? Can the latter two override The Father's veto by a Two-Thirds majority?
Where does it say in any scripture that slaves should count as 3/5 of a person to appease slave states?
How about the idea of a compromise between small states and large states in which one house of the bi-cameral legislature would be based upon population and the other house would give equality to each state in the union. Is this a biblical principal?
Originally posted by 99SESPORT:
Homosexuals are one of those groups, and after this what comes next? Will we okay NAMBLA? Search on it if you don't know what it is. Will we okay incest? Will rape be okayed? What will be allowed next?
It seems pretty simple to me. How about we draw the line at allowing consenting adults have whatever other interaction they want with other consenting adults - as long as nobody else is hurt in the process.
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Quote:
It is unnatural, for 1)obvious reasons and 2) because God said so...
What are these "obvious reasons" that you speak of? Doesn't seem all that obvious to me.
And God said this was wrong? HOLY [censored], MAN! You can speak to God Himself?!
.... I think you mean someone said that is what God said. Obviously you are no so ignorant so as to believe everything someone tells you.
I can stand on a street corner with a sandwich board too and yell a bunch of nonsense about what God told me -- maybe a thousand years from now someone will write that down and everyone will mindlessly believe everything that I said in my crazy stupors.
Quote:
Wow, the constitution overrides what it is based on.
1> WTF are you smoking to think that the Constitution is based on the Bible? Last time I checked, nowhere in the Constitution did it say "See Genesis 1:2 for clarification of this amendment."
2> Let us say that it was based on the Bible... then of course it over-rides the Bible. If they wanted it to read exactly the same as the Bible we'd have made the 13 colonies ratify the New Testament. If it the Constituion were "based" on the Bible, then it would follow that the Constitution was an improvement (from a government perspective) on it.
Quote:
Stealing and murder, let's step away from them. Incest? Wrong or not? NAMBLA, boys and men, right or wrong? Pronography, lust, adultery etc? Right or wrong. How about disrespect of parents? Infancticide? Abortion? I could go on and on, but the simple fact is, is that it is all wrong, and all immoral, including homosexuality. How about lying? IMMORAL. How about cheating?
Stealing -- Hurts someone else -- Gov't Involvement
Murder -- Hurts someone else -- Gov't Involvement
Incest -- Hurts someoene else -- Gov't Involvement
Pornography -- Doesn't hurt anyone -- Gov't Stays Out (except in cases where it does -- minors)
Lust -- Doesn't hurt anyone -- Gov't Stays Out
Adultery -- Hurts someone else -- Gov't Involvement
Disrespect of Parents -- Doesn't hurt anyone -- Gov't Stays Out
Infanticide -- Hurts someone else -- Gov't Involvement
Abortion -- Hurts someone else -- Gov't Involvement (generally)
Are you starting to notice the pattern here....
And, of course, last but not least:
Homosexuality -- Doesn't hurt anyone -- Gov't Stays Out
Quote:
That's why, regardless of a "Constitution" or "Bill of Rights." As I wrote just a second ago, our government is not our final judge, like most would like to forget.
You're exactly right. And that's why they shouldn't try to act like they are -- which is exactly what you want them to do. Let the damned government do what it's supposed to do -- work for the will of the majority of the people, and let "our final judge" take care of His part of things later on.
You live your life for you, let someone else live their life for theirs, and we'll see how it comes out in the end. Bet my place in Heaven that you'll be surprised how many gay people you're sharing Heaven with.
2003 Mazda6s 3.0L MTX
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I wish a mod or admin would step in and lock this damn thread. 
1996 MM
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192000 kms...not dead, but I'm not fixing it
White people love Wayne Brady because he makes Bryant Gumbel look like Malcolm X.
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Originally posted by Bullet:
I wish a mod or admin would step in and lock this damn thread.
You might want to add the word "Bush" between or and admin..
That's exactly what everyones trying to do with this issue..! throw it on the back burner. If another case arose that involved your life, you would want it taken care of asap!
99 A4 1.8t kk04 turbo , turboxs bov, REVOteknik tuned- 18psi, Pflow max air filter, supersprint exhaust. Eibach Springs 2 inch drop, koni blues'.
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NewPaltz, NY.
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