Originally posted by mbSVT:
Originally posted by bishop375:
Originally posted by 96_Concept_GL:
Why not allow polygamy?




It's allowed in Utah.




Are you sure about that?? I didn't think it was.




The state does not permit polygamy. The LDS church also is against it (but wasnt a long, long time ago). The reformed LDS church (IIRC), which branched off before any of us were around still practices it.

Originally posted by Nate S:
Originally posted by MercuryMystik99:
It has nothing to do with morals, religion, or personal...

[snipped the long reply]

...even going to get into the war in Iraq.




i think thats a valid point, people could try to take advantage of it, etc.

but you have to admit that it DOES have to do with morals, religion, etc, for some people....




And people cant take advantage of the system right now? There are plenty of marriages that are about insurance, taxes, etc and no children will ever be brought into them.

Good reply Scott!

Originally posted by ScottR:
Here's my thinking on another (related) topic: adoption by homosexuals.

I do not doubt that there are many homosexual couples that could provide far superior environments for children than they currently have. But the real question is whether there is solid evidence to show this makes sense as a general idea.




You run into problems with this again. Wording has to be carefully written to protect the children. Utah's law is one such example. They do not permit an unmarried couple (or a single person) to adopt a child. Take my friend, he has been living with his wife (for lack of a better word) for as long as I have known him, over five years. Technically he is married to her under common law because they have lived together for so long. He has never walked down the asile with her for medical reasons. Right now she has excellent insurance from the state for some condition she has (Im not going to go into details in this thread). If he marries her, his insurance will have to take over and it will ruin them because of the cost of what she needs. Now throw the daughter that they have raised into that. The daughter is the 'wife's' biological child. She knows who her real father is, but he doesnt have custody of her. So, if something happened to the wife, since she and my friend were not married he cannot take custody of the girl whos life he has been a part of for countless years. She would go to her grandparents on her mothers side, since they are the only married couple. So instead of taking it on a case by case basis, the blanket approach to fix the problem would ruin this girls life.

I also fall into this with my brother's newborn baby. Since I am not married, if something happened to my brother and his wife, I could not take custody of my own nephew.

Originally posted by ScottR:
As for gay parents, there is (to my knowledge) no body of research that tells us how adopted children turn out. This is because there are not that many children of gay parents. In the future, we may have more understanding of this. If research shows positive effects, then I say promote the policy nation-wide. But for the sake of children, let's take a ??wait and see? attitude.




My ex had turned out fine for being raised by lesbians. I will continue this reply in the next section.

Originally posted by ScottR:
Nonetheless, as a matter of common sense, I expect there are definite drawbacks to gay adoption. And these drawbacks have to do with gender socialization. Parents are a major source of socialization for children. Little girls (for example) benefit greatly from the presence of a feminine figure in the home.

When I come home from work late at night, both my boys run down stairs and excitedly announce, ??Daddy's home!? I??m not just some ??parental unit,? neutered, without a gender. My children know about gender differences, celebrate, and embrace them.

Second, there is the possibility that a gay couple would encourage or even intentionally socialize their child into a homosexual lifestyle. This is not desirable.




I am sure that there would be some cases where the parents tried to raise the child as if they were a homosexual. This cannot be done! The child would have to be taught when they were young the difference between men and women, it would have to be explained clearly, obviously some things would need to be explained as the child got older and could grasp different ideas. The child would have to be able to grow and develop as a normal child would. They will adapt to the situation that they live in. If they want to tell their friends that their mom's lover is their aunt, or introduce their friends to both of their moms, that is something that the child will have to grow into as they are older. The parents would have to embrace whatever choices their child makes in their life, either hetero or homosexual. This is something a lot of heterosexual parents have trouble doing. The child then becomes afraid to tell their parents about their life, depression results, possible failed heterosexual marriages, more children that would now be in broken homes, etc. If the child raised by a homosexual couple wants to be hetero, that is fine! If anything I think the gay couple would be happy for them because they wouldnt have to go through the troubles that their life has seen. And, they would have biological grandchildren. The same goes for the hetero couple that raises a child who comes out as gay/lesbian.

Originally posted by ScottR:
In my life, I have encountered a number of little children who live in a single-parent household (usually mother only). It never ceases to amaze me how a little girl longs for a real dad in the family. This is not abnormal. It is very natural. Even a little girl longs for a masculine figure in her family. She wants dad to read her the story of the three little pigs, not just mommy. She wants to rough house with dad and misses him when he??s away late at the office.

I think what we really forget in this debate is the precious little children. Little children want mom AND dad. And they want plenty of quality time from both parents. That makes them happy.




A lot of homosexual couple will have a masculine and a feminine role mode, even if they are of the same sex. A butch lesbian for example could be more masculine then most straight men.

Originally posted by ScottR:
I think it does matter what sort of messages we send them and the sort of behavior we promote.




Agreed!


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