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Originally posted by spgoode:
Originally posted by beyondloadedSE:
Its just so hard to believe one man did this all for you
So hard to believe that I don't. Seriously though, I'm not a christian or jewish so I can look at the issue without prejudice.
From what I've heard the jews are portrayed as conniving, with hook noses and bad teeth, whereas the desciples, who are also jews, are not.
Also, much of the scenes are not supported by scruptures, but by the visions of two nuns back in the 19th century.
And lastly, in the movie Pilot is coerced by the jewish leadership into crucifying christ against his better judgement. Apparently, no theologians, biblical scholars, or the Pope believe this to be true.
It seems that Mel Gibson has let the ravings of his lunatic father distort his portrayal of the last 12 hours of the life of christ.
You don't believe it and then you say it isn't factual. Why would that matter if you don't believe it?
The way I heard it, the known facts do not support his version of events. However, the known facts don't dispute it either. So where's the beef?
Second, it is a movie. An inspired movie for sure, but it is NOT a documentary, it is an interpretation of the events. Call it poetic license if you will. The movie Apollo 13 was the same way. It represented the events, but not exact word for word. That was a good movie too. Howver, not many religions center around Apollo 13, at least to my knowledge.
My name is Richard. I was a Contouraholic.
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I haven't seen it so I don't know. I will go see it and decide for myself. I think we should all go see it and decide for ourselves!!!!!!
98 Mystique LS
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Originally posted by spgoode:
So hard to believe that I don't.
Either Jesus was a liar, a lunatic, or who he said he really was. You be the judge. 
Jim Hahn
1996 T-Red Contour SE Reborn 4/6/04
3.0L swap and Arizona Dyno Chip Turbo Kit
364 whp, 410 wtq @ 4,700 rpm
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Originally posted by spgoode:
...And lastly, in the movie Pilot is coerced by the jewish leadership into crucifying christ against his better judgement. Apparently, no theologians, biblical scholars, or the Pope believe this to be true.
...
HUGE oversimplification there, if that indeed is portrayed in the movie. Roman leaders didn't put weak-minded and weak-willed individuals in charge of their far-flung empires, so casting Pilate as a mere "tool" of the Jews is reckless and regardless to what the Gospels infer, one-sided and most likely inaccurate.
I'm relying on memory here, but from the various pieces I've read about Roman governors and Pilate in particular, he was headstrong, conniving, politically-savy and brutal when he needed to be(I seem to recall where he put down some Jewish uprisings with particular heavy-handedness). At the same time, like any Roman governor that wanted to keep his position and maintain the "Pax Romana", he probably knew when to appease the native population and work with them (I also seem to recall certain events where he allowed some religious leeways for the Jews). Combine this and the uproar that Jesus created, along with the claims that He himself made and those heaped upon him by the Jews that were threatened by his growing following, it's no wonder that Christ was crucified, strictly speaking from a political and historical standpoint.
Of course, from a religious standpoint, all of this was divine destiny, so pick your poison on which version to believe.
I for one, believe in a mixture of all three...
JaTo
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Missouri City, TX
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Originally posted by JaTo:
Originally posted by spgoode:
...And lastly, in the movie Pilot is coerced by the jewish leadership into crucifying christ against his better judgement. Apparently, no theologians, biblical scholars, or the Pope believe this to be true.
...
HUGE oversimplification there, if that indeed is portrayed in the movie. Roman leaders didn't put weak-minded and weak-willed individuals in charge of their far-flung empires, so casting Pilate as a mere "tool" of the Jews is reckless and regardless to what the Gospels infer, one-sided and most likely inaccurate.
I'm relying on memory here, but from the various pieces I've read about Roman governors and Pilate in particular, he was headstrong, conniving, politically-savy and brutal when he needed to be(I seem to recall where he put down some Jewish uprisings with particular heavy-handedness). At the same time, like any Roman governor that wanted to keep his position and maintain the "Pax Romana", he probably knew when to appease the native population and work with them (I also seem to recall certain events where he allowed some religious leeways for the Jews). Combine this and the uproar that Jesus created, along with the claims that He himself made and those heaped upon him by the Jews that were threatened by his growing following, it's no wonder that Christ was crucified, strictly speaking from a political and historical standpoint.
Of course, from a religious standpoint, all of this was divine destiny, so pick your poison on which version to believe.
I for one, believe in a mixture of all three...
I am only going on what I have heard and read about the movie. I will not go to see the movie because there is no reason for me to. If someone who has seen the movie wants to dispute anything in my original post them go ahead, I could be wrong.
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But thus do I counsel you, my friends: distrust all in whom the impulse to punish is powerful!
Friedrich Nietzsche
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Originally posted by Contouraholic:
Originally posted by spgoode:
Originally posted by beyondloadedSE:
Its just so hard to believe one man did this all for you
So hard to believe that I don't. Seriously though, I'm not a christian or jewish so I can look at the issue without prejudice.
From what I've heard the jews are portrayed as conniving, with hook noses and bad teeth, whereas the desciples, who are also jews, are not.
Also, much of the scenes are not supported by scruptures, but by the visions of two nuns back in the 19th century.
And lastly, in the movie Pilot is coerced by the jewish leadership into crucifying christ against his better judgement. Apparently, no theologians, biblical scholars, or the Pope believe this to be true.
It seems that Mel Gibson has let the ravings of his lunatic father distort his portrayal of the last 12 hours of the life of christ.
You don't believe it and then you say it isn't factual. Why would that matter if you don't believe it?
I don't believe Mel Gibson's interpretation
Dueling Duratecs
'95 SE V6 MTX 0 Mods
'04 Mazda6 S Wagon
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But thus do I counsel you, my friends: distrust all in whom the impulse to punish is powerful!
Friedrich Nietzsche
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Originally posted by Contouraholic:
Originally posted by spgoode:
Originally posted by beyondloadedSE:
Its just so hard to believe one man did this all for you
So hard to believe that I don't. Seriously though, I'm not a christian or jewish so I can look at the issue without prejudice.
From what I've heard the jews are portrayed as conniving, with hook noses and bad teeth, whereas the desciples, who are also jews, are not.
Also, much of the scenes are not supported by scruptures, but by the visions of two nuns back in the 19th century.
And lastly, in the movie Pilot is coerced by the jewish leadership into crucifying christ against his better judgement. Apparently, no theologians, biblical scholars, or the Pope believe this to be true.
It seems that Mel Gibson has let the ravings of his lunatic father distort his portrayal of the last 12 hours of the life of christ.
The way I heard it, the known facts do not support his version of events. However, the known facts don't dispute it either. So where's the beef?
The beef is that the best evidence does dispute some of the "facts" in the movie. Mel Gibson chose to ignore them.
Dueling Duratecs
'95 SE V6 MTX 0 Mods
'04 Mazda6 S Wagon
'03 Kawasaki Z1000
But thus do I counsel you, my friends: distrust all in whom the impulse to punish is powerful!
Friedrich Nietzsche
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Originally posted by spgoode:
I don't believe Mel Gibson's interpretation
You haven't even seen the movie. 
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Originally posted by JaTo:
Originally posted by spgoode:
...And lastly, in the movie Pilot is coerced by the jewish leadership into crucifying christ against his better judgement. Apparently, no theologians, biblical scholars, or the Pope believe this to be true.
...
HUGE oversimplification there, if that indeed is portrayed in the movie. Roman leaders didn't put weak-minded and weak-willed individuals in charge of their far-flung empires, so casting Pilate as a mere "tool" of the Jews is reckless and regardless to what the Gospels infer, one-sided and most likely inaccurate.
I'm relying on memory here, but from the various pieces I've read about Roman governors and Pilate in particular, he was headstrong, conniving, politically-savy and brutal when he needed to be
This is what some of the jewish uproar is about. The movie seems to absolve the Romans and put the blame squarely on the jews. When jesus is on the cross a jew in the crowd says "let his blood be on us and on our children" or something to that effect. Gibson, removed the subtitle for this line but it is still stated in Aramic.
Dueling Duratecs
'95 SE V6 MTX 0 Mods
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'03 Kawasaki Z1000
But thus do I counsel you, my friends: distrust all in whom the impulse to punish is powerful!
Friedrich Nietzsche
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Originally posted by beyondloadedSE:
Either Jesus was a liar, a lunatic, or who he said he really was. You be the judge.
I love C.S. Lewis's explainaton. "Lord, liar, or lunatic"
Originally posted by spgoode:
This is what some of the jewish uproar is about. The movie seems to absolve the Romans and put the blame squarely on the jews. When jesus is on the cross a jew in the crowd says "let his blood be on us and on our children" or something to that effect. Gibson, removed the subtitle for this line but it is still stated in Aramic.
From what I recall from the Bible, the Jewish leadership were the one's wanting to crucify him, not the general Jewish population. The leadership saw him as a threat to their power. People wouldn't have to come to them anymore to speak to God, they could do it directly.
Ken
PackRat is my hero!
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