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#852559 01/27/04 06:49 AM
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If you are capable... KEY WORDS!!!

You can build a very good 3L for about $1200.


...oh yeah...


You can not call it a turbocharger...

Electric supercharger would be correct and for 2k plus for very limited use, only WOT, and an IMMENSE task on the electrical system it's definitely NOT worth it.

They are running 3 gear reduction starter drives. That's 300-400 amps of sustained current draw!!! You'd need to add a couple deep cycle batteries to operate it properly.
I wonder how it effects the PCM and ignition system to spike everything like that???
Also your voltage would drop as well. For instance a single 100amp starter drops a 500cca battery to 10.5 volts under load.
How long would the alternator take a load 2 to 3 times it's max limit?

BTW - 405cfm would produce about 220FWHP on a "boosted" 2.5L engine.

300cfm NA = 165FWHP (stock SVT)
500cfm boosted = 275FWHP (SF turbo)


2000 SVT #674 13.47 @ 102 - All Motor! It was not broke; Yet I fixed it anyway.
#852560 01/27/04 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by DemonSVT:
If you are capable... KEY WORDS!!!

You can build a very good 3L for about $1200.


...oh yeah...


You can not call it a turbocharger...

Electric supercharger would be correct and for 2k plus for very limited use, only WOT, and an IMMENSE task on the electrical system it's definitely NOT worth it.

They are running 3 gear reduction starter drives. That's 300-400 amps of sustained current draw!!! You'd need to add a couple deep cycle batteries to operate it properly.
I wonder how it effects the PCM and ignition system to spike everything like that???
Also your voltage would drop as well. For instance a single 100amp starter drops a 500cca battery to 10.5 volts under load.
How long would the alternator take a load 2 to 3 times it's max limit?

BTW - 405cfm would produce about 220FWHP on a "boosted" 2.5L engine.

300cfm NA = 165FWHP (stock SVT)
500cfm boosted = 275FWHP (SF turbo)




All very valid points.

However, I read through the page and for the money you get 2 or 3 batteries that need to be recharged.
There is an alternator/battery cutout to save your electrical system when you kick it in so most of those are solved. I think it runs on 24 volts too. That is how they get the power and not blow up the car. The batteries have to be recharged for the fun....and what happens when the batteries wear out? I imagine they cost a small fortune to replace. It seems like a logical system and it would be fun to own, bling bling and all; but why? A turbo adds about the same or less weight and has no parasitic load and very little efficiency loss in the exhaust.
A turbo without an intercooler with about 4-6 psi will make more power, probably be safe and only cost around 2K-2.5K dollars.

Tom

PS, I know its a shameless plug, but:
LOOK AT MY SIGNATURE


Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760 356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas! See My Mods '05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red '06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black
#852561 01/27/04 03:11 PM
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Just what I would want for performance... A bunch of batteries laying around in my car.

We strategically place our 10 batteries in your car for optimal weight distribution!

Originally posted by warmonger:

All very valid points.

However, I read through the page and for the money you get 2 or 3 batteries that need to be recharged.
There is an alternator/battery cutout to save your electrical system when you kick it in so most of those are solved. I think it runs on 24 volts too. That is how they get the power and not blow up the car. The batteries have to be recharged for the fun....and what happens when the batteries wear out? I imagine they cost a small fortune to replace. It seems like a logical system and it would be fun to own, bling bling and all; but why? A turbo adds about the same or less weight and has no parasitic load and very little efficiency loss in the exhaust.
A turbo without an intercooler with about 4-6 psi will make more power, probably be safe and only cost around 2K-2.5K dollars.

Tom

PS, I know its a shameless plug, but:
LOOK AT MY SIGNATURE





Sal Khan 00 SVT - Not pretty 00 Aprilia RSV Mille - Also Loved. http://www.thelunchjournals.com "I just want someone I can stand once her mouth is free of obstruction."
#852562 01/27/04 05:38 PM
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Well If you still are interested here is the email they set me...Discuss!


In a message dated 1/26/2004 6:19:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, zz28camaro@yahoo.com writes:
-is this workable on the 24 2.5 duratec?
-is this safe on your motor?
-is this a system that works when you go full throttle
or does it go buy a button.
The ESC-400 is good for a 2.5 at 5 psi, and the ESC-550 is good the the 2.5 if higher boost is desired.

At 5 psi, the temperature gain is lower than a turbo (about 55 degrees)

It can be set up like NOX with a microswitch on the throttle body, or a push button or switch on the console. I use a microswitch on a 5-speed car, and a console switch on an auto trans car.

Here is the info on the ESC family of superchargers:

We only produce the ESC unit by itself. I will be happy to help guide you to install one on your car. The installation is so straight forward that most any vehicle can have one adapted with a little effort.

The ESC family of superchargers are universal units. The ESC-400 will fit engines up to 3.0, and the ESC-550 will fit engines up to 4.2 liter. The ESC-750 will support up to a 5.7 liter engine. Your car will LOVE the awesome INSTANT boost.

We have a promotional discount running in Jan & Feb that lowers the price to $1520 for the ESC-400 (reg $1995) and to $1720 for the ESC-550 and ESC-750 (reg $2195) . There are also many additional accessories in the promotion. (see below) All we ask in return is detailed pics of the installation.

This is the most awesome new developement in decades. On most front wheel drive cars the simple relocation of the original car battery and air filter box will give all the room you need to mount the ESC. On rear wheel drive vehicles the unit could be mounted in the rear of the vehicle and a tube run to the front of the car. This would give much better traction and weight distribution. This new technology allows for different placement for ther ESC.

The batteries can be any good automotive type, but we use four Odyssey 12lb batteries for the ESC-400. The larger 550 and 750 units need 4 to 6 batteries--depending on how much airflow and boost you want. If you run four or six large batteries, you will get many runs before the batteries need recharging. The smaller 12lb batteries will be limited to two or three 1/4 mile runs. I use two different battery sets in my Altima. Six smaller Odysseys for drag racing (less weight), and six Optimas for multiple test runs. I get 15 test runs from the larger batteries, and I can charge them with my shop battery charger is 1-1/2 hrs. If you have a stock alternator in your car rated at 140 amps or less, go with the larger batteries and recharge overnight at home. If you have a high output alternator in your car, then the smaller batteries should be used.
Dont let the extra weight from larger batteries discourage you. Adding 180lb to your vehicle to make 100 extra hp is a very good tradeoff. The smaller batteries will only add 100lb total (including the ESC) to your car for drag racing. I removed the carpet pad and sound insulation on my Altima, and the tar mat (under the carpet) was 70lb by itself.

There are many high output alternators available (200 amp alternators are everywhere for $225). I have sourced super-high output alternators (300 amps+).

When you purchase an ESC, you also get the supercharger inlet and discharge adapters, universal mounts, switches, terminals, solenoids, and a boost gauge as part of the promotional. Add the batteries, cables, BOV, and fuel controller. Now you are set to boost.

The Odyssey batteries are on ebay for 50% of retail. The BOV and gauges are also on ebay for less than most stores. The BOV I use on all my installations are $70 on ebay. Gauges are $30 each. Alternator upgrades (if you decide to get one) are on ebay for $150-$250. Take your time finding these parts and save $$$.

We are looking for specific parts and services for our two project race cars (98 Eclipse non-turbo and 95 Neon ACR). We need upgraded brakes, engines, wheels, tires (both street and drag slicks), fuel systems, ignition, audio systems, roll bars, racing seats, paint & body, etc. We also need an additional race car trailer and will be willing to do a trade or partial trade with our ESC family of superchargers in exchange for any of these if you have any parts we need. Please let us know what you may have.

Ebay items:

Odyssey 680 batteries @ $60 each-------$240-$360
Boost Gauge-------------------------------------------------$30 (included in special promo)
FMU--on ebay used or new---------------------$30-$100
BOV-------------------------------------------------------------$70
Cold air intake w/ filter------------------------------------$35

Auto parts store:

Charging relays & wiring (3 @ $10)------------------$30 (included in special promo)
Battery terminals-($3 each)------------$20 (included in special promo)
Switches to turn on unit---------------$20 (included in special promo)
Wire for installation--------------------$20

At Home Depot:

3-0 battery cable------------($1.10 /ft)-----------------$55
Terminals, connectors, and switches--------------$35 (included in special promo)
2-1/2" check valve-----------------------------------------$15 (included in special promo)

Extra accessories (can be added in the future)

200 AMP Alternator-------------------------------------$220
Air/Fuel gauge------------------------$50

12-11-03 ' 93-' 98 ALTIMA
Our completely stock Nissan Altima 4-CYL automatic trans jumped from 105 wheel hp to a 177 wheel hp with the ESC-400ΓΆβ??ΒΆ at only 5 psi boost.

12-20-03 MOROSO TRACK TIMES FOR ESC 2003-12-20 Moroso Motorsport Park was home this weekend to the Sport Compact Winter Challange, and we took the Altima to MMP to test the ESC for 1/4 mile use. The weight of the car with speaker box, molded body kit, ESC-400 and batteries, etc was 3780lb. The bone stock KADE 2.4 liter 4-cyl automatic ran low 18's @ 78 mph with the ESC off, and ran a best 15.583 @ 89mph at only 5 psi boost. Traction with the ESC was a real problem with 2.45 60ft times on four attempts. This is faster than a 5.0 Mustang Convertible. According to the MPH and time, that equates to 145 hp stock, and 220hp under boost.

1-6-04 we installed the ESC-400DR-550 (drag racing version) in the Altima getting it ready for Moroso on Feb 8. This unit is capable of 20+ psi, so we had to set the pressure to 10 psi with the BOV. At 10 psi it feels like a high 13 sec car, and we will add some parts to support the 10 psi. We are installing headers, exhaust, larger injectors, and a dyno run is set for next Wed, 1-14-04 at SFP. We should see well over 200 wheel hp on this stock longblock auto trans Altima.

1-8-04 Oops!!! Too much boost blew something on the Altima. We took some visitors for test rides and some burnout photos, and after over thirty runs @ 10 psi the engine let go. The fuel cut leaned out the mixture too much. Time to pull the head.

1-10-04 We need pistons!!! Three pistons were damaged during the last run, and we are swapping another stock motor in the car. The fuel pump failed, and that caused the engine to run too lean and burn the pistons. 10 psi is just too high for a stock engine.

1-14-04 Replaced engine with a low milage stock engine, added OBX headers, and an extra 550cc injector. The dyno run at a safer 8 psi gave us over 208 wheel hp at SFP today!!! We wont run lean ever again with that 550cc additional injector. See you at Moroso Feb 8--we should run high 13's low 14's.

1-20-04 Removed interior and scraped 70lb of sound deadening tar mat off the floor under the carpet of the Altima. So the 72lb of batteries now adds no additional weight to the car.








THOMAS (GEOFF) KNIGHT
THOMAS KNIGHT TURBOS
BOOSTHEAD.COM
786-243-2000
22050 SW 155 AVE
MIAMI, FL
33170






99 CSVT****TRADED IN**** 98 CSVT *SHO Y-pipe *Magnaflow Exhaust *highflow cat *KKM intake *Rousch springs *ST200 Struts *19" Axis Sevens 2004 Blue Chevy Cavalier *Groundcontrol coilovers *debadged
#852563 01/27/04 10:06 PM
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Wow.

His "laundry" list just added over 1000 dollars to the base price tag.

Also the 100-200lbs of batteries alone is a ton. That will kill the car's time up to about 330' where the power from this setup can be used to it's full extent.

I won't even get into how this extra weight will affect handling & braking.


Great idea, so so results. Only truly good from a roll at WOT IMO and piss poor the rest of the time.

Hell if you want a drag car then buy one. This product is a lot of money for such a limited range of real world use.

For instance if a nitrous kit is $500. (I.E. drag oriented) How many refills in $2500??? (I.E. about 750 1/4 mile passes in a lighter car making more power for those not wanting to do the math)


2000 SVT #674 13.47 @ 102 - All Motor! It was not broke; Yet I fixed it anyway.
#852564 01/27/04 10:33 PM
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Originally posted by DemonSVT:

Great idea, so so results. Only truly good from a roll at WOT IMO and piss poor the rest of the time.

Hell if you want a drag car then buy one. This product is a lot of money for such a limited range of real world use.

For instance if a nitrous kit is $500. (I.E. drag oriented) How many refills in $2500??? (I.E. about 750 1/4 mile passes in a lighter car making more power for those not wanting to do the math)




Gotta agree with that. Save yourself the time and the embarassment at stop lights and get a n2o setup...


1998 Contour SVT Black with midnight blue interior http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/300749/contoursvt.jpg Build number to come soon!
#852565 01/28/04 12:14 AM
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Quote:

3-0 battery cable------------($1.10 /ft)-----------------$55




Holy crap, that is 50ft of wire. Good luck try to run and hide that.

Still a very sweet concept.


Just a Plain SE. AKA Big Country I maybe path914's B**** now, but wait until he needs his clutch done. We will see WHO is WHO's B**** then!
#852566 01/28/04 12:40 AM
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At least he isn't trying to [censored] us with an electric S/C.
He's giving us a real world list for what I think is a pretty cool product with real results.
Props for that.

I just don't think it is practical.
Now for a cool as show car.....


Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760 356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas! See My Mods '05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red '06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black
#852567 01/28/04 05:13 AM
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What we need is a Hyrdrogen powered Supercharger that runs on water. I'm gonna work on it. Group buy in 2050.


Sal Khan 00 SVT - Not pretty 00 Aprilia RSV Mille - Also Loved. http://www.thelunchjournals.com "I just want someone I can stand once her mouth is free of obstruction."
#852568 01/28/04 08:28 PM
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Originally posted by SalKhan:
What we need is a Hyrdrogen powered Supercharger that runs on water. I'm gonna work on it. Group buy in 2050.



I'm in...


2000 SVT #674 13.47 @ 102 - All Motor! It was not broke; Yet I fixed it anyway.
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