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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 49
New CEG\'er
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OP
New CEG\'er
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 49 |
Well here's an update:
Today I went over and for the first time saw just how bad the car was acting.
Here's what would happen:
You start the car, it revs up to almost 3000 RPMs, then, if it doesn't stall right away, it will just keep going way down to ALMOST stalling, and then SHOOT right back up to 3000 RPMs, and then go back down and ALMOST stall, and then SHOOT back up etc...etc...it would keep doing this like 10 or more times while idling until eventually it would just completely stall out.
Now, I finally bit and decided to buy a nice vacuum pump so that I could test the EGR valve out.
I first tested it with the engine OFF to see if the valve would hold vacuum. I pumped it to about 10" hg and it held there for well over a minute. So it passed that test.
Then I started the engine and applied 10-12" hg of vacuum to the EGR and it made absolutely NO difference at all!! I kept applying vacuum and then releasing it, applying and releasing...and the engine didn't respond at all!!
So, is it safe to say that there's a crap load of carbon that is not allowing the EGR valves diaphragm to close??
I just find it strange that the engine acted like it had a mind of it's own, constantly reving up and down, up and down, just about stalling and then shooting the RPMs way up...I think it made it a lot worse because the outside temperature was well below Zero, and we all know that the PCM doesn't even activate the EGR until it's reached operating temperature.
THANKS GUYS!!:)
PS Is it true that I pretty much NEED a 22mm Crowfoot wrench to remove the valve??
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 7,117
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 7,117 |
Originally posted by 5point1:
Here's what would happen:
You start the car, it revs up to almost 3000 RPMs, then, if it doesn't stall right away, it will just keep going way down to ALMOST stalling, and then SHOOT right back up to 3000 RPMs, and then go back down and ALMOST stall, and then SHOOT back up etc...etc...it would keep doing this like 10 or more times while idling until eventually it would just completely stall out.
This is a whole different ballgame. This does not sound like a DPFE or EGR problem at all. I'm thinking the Idle Air Control valve needs a good cleaning.
If I was the guy spending the money, I'd do the TB cleaning, and start the car up to see if that helped. The channels behind the TB gasket are probably so caked full of carbon that you can't even see them.
If that doesn't help, its a simple task to remove the IAC valve to clean & lube it. THAT should get your idle smoothed out real nice. Maybe you can get a CEGer to visit you & let you install their working IAC valve. That way you know if it will solve the problem before you spend money on one - if needed.
Both these things can be done in one afternoon by a novice mechanic in the cold northern air (although I'd let the IAC valve dry off indoors before re-installing it).
Must be that jumbly-wumbly thing happening again.
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 49
New CEG\'er
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OP
New CEG\'er
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 49 |
Quote:
This is a whole different ballgame. This does not sound like a DPFE or EGR problem at all. I'm thinking the Idle Air Control valve needs a good cleaning.
But my sister just had these exact same symptoms about 3 months ago. She took it to a mechanic, and they cleaned the EGR valve which cured the problem up until now. The mechanic told her she would eventually need a New EGR valve though...
??
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,166
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,166 |
Originally posted by 5point1:
You start the car, it revs up to almost 3000 RPMs, then, if it doesn't stall right away, it will just keep going way down to ALMOST stalling, and then SHOOT right back up to 3000 RPMs, and then go back down and ALMOST stall, and then SHOOT back up etc...etc...it would keep doing this like 10 or more times while idling until eventually it would just completely stall out.
Not sure about what's causing your problem, but this is the car searching for an idle. It is reving and falling through the range until it finds a comfortable idle. The car is unable to find an idle, and then stalls out.
Good luck.
- Zack
- Zack
WANTED: T-Red HEATED Side Mirrors
FOR SALE: 4 14" Alum Alloys and Nearly New Avid H4s Tires w/ Center Caps
2000 T-Red SVT
1995 LX V6 MTX (RIP)
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 7,117
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 7,117 |
You checked the diaphram in the EGR valve & it appeared to be good - except for the Engine on test. This tells me that the EGR passages to the TB are all plugged up. Clean those beasties out!!
Once done, be sure both hoses & the electrical connection to the DPFE are secure and start the car. It may be all you need. If the engine is still hunting for idle, clean the Idle Air Control valve.
Those two things should set things right, you don't have to purchase anything except a $4 gasket & some cleaner. Even if the DPFE has gone belly up, the idle should not be affected that radically. I had to replace mine after a TB cleaning to rid myself of a dreaded CEL & my car never even ran poorly.
Give them a try, you have next to nothing to lose (assuming you do it yourself).
Must be that jumbly-wumbly thing happening again.
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 888
Veteran CEG\'er
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Veteran CEG\'er
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 888 |
if this is the case why would you even post here... just take it off and clean it or put a new one on... oh, i get it, maybe if you keep asking for help you will find the answer you want???? what answer do you want??? the mechanic looked at it and saw the EGR.. no one here saw it so how do you expect someone here to do a better job of troubleshooting it than the mechanic who saw it???
If you put a vacuum on the top of the EGr and it pulls a vacuum then that is only telling you that the diaphram does not have a leak.. you pull a vacuum when the engine is running and if it does not run rough or kill then its not working at all.. could be a small piece of carbon holding the EGR stuck or the inside vacuum chamber of the EGR might even be blocked up??? but when the background you have on this the cheapeast solution is to take it out and clean it up....then if you have the same problem then it is not the problem???? if it the code goes away then you know its the EGR... then you replace it, like your sister should have done in the first place....
i never had a 22MM crows foot wrench, but did have some old a/c refrigeration wrenches.... used a 1 1/8 in. open end flare wrench to get to the tube on the EGR... was worried about it breaking, but it was just a little over hand tight, one little bit of force and then it could be removed by hand... boy what a relief...... i looked all over for the 22mm wrench and could not find one at pep boys, autozone, sears, etc.. i knew i could have ordered one from
NAPA or someother supply house, but did not want to spend too much for a wrench that i would never have used again...
hope this helps.
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