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Joined: Nov 2003
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CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
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Originally posted by DemonSVT:
I think a "small" phenolic spacer between the LIM and UIM would be beneficial for one reason. Heat barrier.
Also if you incorporated a way to precisely mate to UIM and LIM together it would almost be a "must buy" for every Duratec user.
I'm gonna try the 3/8" spacer and see if i have any clearence issues. To precisely mate the UIM/LIM, i will have to use 2 gaskets on the spacer when mounted. Also, i will have to measure the length of the intake mounting bolts. I should have room to use the original bolts, i don't know yet. I'll keep you guys posted.
Brian
1998 Contour SVT Born:5/22/97 Build #1199
"It's got mods...and it's black"
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Originally posted by extreme98svt:
Originally posted by Contouraholic:
Put a tornado in with the spacer and you will see 10-15 HP and better fuel mileage.
Oh wait, that's right, the tornado doesn't work. It needs that certain mojo that a spacer has. 
Build a heat shield, clean the TB, optimize the TB, clean the UIM and LIM. All these are proven performance enhncers that are inexpensive. Throttle body spacers fix a non-existent problem, imho.
The first part of your post means what? That you're mechanical insight is to compare a useless product to a product that has been proven for how many years? Let's get out of the grey area and into the now, thanks.
The last part of your post i agree with and i believe a tb spacer will do nothing. But people who do modify thier cars, don't believe in the old theory, "if it aint broke, don't fix it." Obviously, you just don't get it. When these spacers are made and takin to the dyno and have some #'s, then i feel it will be appropriate for you to make an opinion such as yours. Until then, please don't talk out your ass. Thanks.
I agree that a UIM/LIM spacer MAY help with heat at the expense of the port tuning. You can guess if it helps or hurts. if you get 5 hp on top, and lose 5 hp on the bottom, you performance may be lower even if your max hp is more. If you are looking for Max HP rather than fastest performance, you are on the right track.
When you have dyno #'s to show a TB spacer works, I'll admit I am wrong. I have no mechanical insight other then a decade of experience as a Mechanic, and nearly 2 decades as a mechanical engineer, and nearly 5 decades of life experience. When you have been around awhile, sometimes you learn something (sometimes not). Spacers on carbureted cars were the rage in the 1960's. The decrease in carb bowl heating usually helped, though sometimes didn't, since some applications the carb froze up (air, expanding into the manifold, actually has a refrigeration effect) and decreased performance as they needed some heat. In other applications, the intake manifold was less than optimum. The spacers added some distance before the incoming fuel/air charge has to make a 90 degree turn at the bottom of the intake. This added a little performance to the intake system. But not all intakes, just some. So what were you doing in the 1960's that you missed the great carburetor spacer fad? I thought everyone knew about them! What's that saying? "Those who ignore the past are doomed to repeat it."
It is unlikely that the small extra distance on a Throttle Body will change anything measurable in performance. Comparing the TB spacer to the tornado is a fair comparison in my mind. I seen lots of posts claiming increased HP and mileage from them. Yet all they really do is increase restriction in the intake. The spacer does have an advantage over the Tornado in that it probably won't decrease performance. Don't you think F1, indy cars, nascar cars would be using spacers and tornados if they really increased performance? Nascar uses spacers called restrictor plates, but they don't increase performance (sarcastic joke, the restrictor is not quite the same). If 3/8" space get more performance, why didn't ford make the space from the throttle body to the manifold bigger on the SVT and take advantage of the extra 5hp? Honda gets 240HP from a 2L 4 without the spacers. Maybe you should call Honda and tell them they missed 5hp.
Post the dyno chart (just stock, and then just the spacer). I bet there isn't a significant difference in the 2 curves other than normal variation from one run to another. In fact, I bet anyone here can tell you of a 5 hp difference from one run to another with the same car and configuration. So how would you prove it's the spacer anyway?
But since this is the internet, you can safely ignore me anyway, but I felt an urge to respond. It is always appropriate for someone to respond to a post. You posted it for comments, I commented. You don't like the comment, ignore it. It isn't a bad thing you are doing, in fact, it is probably a good learning experience. Oh, make sure the spacer is yellow, if you know what I mean Don't forget the IAT resistor mod either.
Since you really don't know me, but felt free to comment on what you feel is my behaviour in how/where I talk from and how i have the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" attitude, I'll feel free to comment on your position in life. May you always be as happy as you are now. You must be extremely happy, after all, ignorance is bliss, isn't it?
Merry Christmas, Happy New Year.
My name is Richard. I was a Contouraholic.
NOW: '02 Mazda B3000 Dual Sport, Black
BEFORE: '99 Contour SE Sport
Duratec ATX Spruce Green
PIAA 510's, Foglight MOD, K&N Drop-in
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I have no life
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Originally posted by Contouraholic:
Oh, make sure the spacer is yellow, if you know what I mean
Hey, no need to hate just because my car is faster than your's because I have yellowfied it. 
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
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Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Originally posted by Contouraholic:
Oh, make sure the spacer is yellow, if you know what I mean
Hey, no need to hate just because my car is faster than your's because I have yellowfied it.
he has a duratec, you are not faster
i was running 16.3s consistently with only a KKM, chip, and svt UIM
that was also with my heavy 17s
you got alot of modding your zetec to run with a duratec
Russell
Oval Port 3L Nearly Done
MTX75 w/ Homebrew Zetec FD and Torsen Complete
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Joined: May 2002
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I have no life
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I have no life
Joined: May 2002
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Originally posted by Russell-3L:
Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Originally posted by Contouraholic:
Oh, make sure the spacer is yellow, if you know what I mean
Hey, no need to hate just because my car is faster than your's because I have yellowfied it.
he has a duratec, you are not faster
i was running 16.3s consistently with only a KKM, chip, and svt UIM
that was also with my heavy 17s
you got alot of modding your zetec to run with a duratec
Umm, it was a joke.... wow some (a lot) of ya'll have really dry humor. 
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
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I couldn't touch a yellowfied Zetec.  I don't know what they were thinking. Everyone yellow is THE color of speed.
My name is Richard. I was a Contouraholic.
NOW: '02 Mazda B3000 Dual Sport, Black
BEFORE: '99 Contour SE Sport
Duratec ATX Spruce Green
PIAA 510's, Foglight MOD, K&N Drop-in
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Posts: 7,117
Hard-core CEG'er
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Originally posted by Contouraholic:
I couldn't touch a yellowfied Zetec.
I don't know what they were thinking. Everyone yellow is THE color of speed.
< Runs out to get spray cans of YELLOW paint - A couple cases of the HIGH TEMP kind >
YOU GUYS AIN'T SEEN NUTTIN' YET!!!
Must be that jumbly-wumbly thing happening again.
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810
Hard-core CEG'er
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Originally posted by DemonSVT:
I think a "small" phenolic spacer between the LIM and UIM would be beneficial for one reason. Heat barrier.
Also if you incorporated a way to precisely mate to UIM and LIM together it would almost be a "must buy" for every Duratec user.
As for making it a "large" spacer. Hood clearance is already at a premium (I.E. no room) and you also would be lengthening both primary and secondary runner (lower, smaller powerband) if it were not.
Let's not forget that the o-ring style gaskets with the plastic spacer that 'already' comes with the intake qualifies as a heat barrier.
However I have to cast doubt on the benefits of just a spacer. The trouble with heat is that it warms up everything around it through convection, conduction and radiation. The spacer only works with conduction and then it only slows the rate of heat conduction it doesn't stop it.
This really is the answer to why it is a waste of time....the temperature in the lower intake would have to have rapid and large changes, and I really do mean very large and very rapid changes in very short time periods for this to be somewhat effective.
When the engine is 'warmed-up' all the components are running at operating temperature which means for the most part they are equal in temperature OR they are running at a steady-state of heat exchange as per the coolant flowing through the heads and block pulling heat out of the cylinders.
By this time the intake is already equalized to a certain temperature. A phenolic spacer will not lower the ultimate temperature of the manifolds! They will all be the same temperature, plastic or aluminum. If there were sudden spikes of temperature in the lower intake manifold of say....100 degrees or more within 1-2 seconds then I'd say OK, put in a better spacer. But that doesn't happen, especially in a liquid cooled motor.
Also, if it comes to it, you would put the same theories to work in reduction of heat flow that you do in the building of a simple Thermos.
Low thermal conductivity and VERY LOW surface area between the parts that make contact.
The small suface area of contact does more to limit heat flow than making it of pure styrofoam; hence why my all stainless steel vacuum thermos keeps liquid hot all day even though it isn't made of plastics!!!!
*******Demon this isn't pointed at you but for anyone who cares to read it.
One other thing, having plastic intakes does nothing for keeping the heat down. They do have a lower thermal conductivity so they should reduce the overall amount of heat that is transferred to the incoming air stream. It is less of an issue the faster the air speed is so at higher rpm it will be less beneficial.
Again, there is a big difference between thermal conductivity and the actual temperature of the objects in question. Bottom line is a spacer between the intakes will not do much if at all. A spacer between the heads and the lower intake will still do little more than the existing plastic gasket already does.
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black
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Originally posted by warmonger:
The small suface area of contact does more to limit heat flow than making it of pure styrofoam; hence why my all stainless steel vacuum thermos keeps liquid hot all day even though it isn't made of plastics!!!!
That it!!! That's the answer!!!
Encase the UIM in styrofoam!
Extreme98SVT, make a prototype out of some of that expanding foam stuff & squirt it all around your UIM to isolate it & see if that works. No clearance issues either!
Warmonger, you're brilliant!!! You get full credit for this one.
 < self >
Must be that jumbly-wumbly thing happening again.
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Posts: 291
CEG\'er
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I couldn't agree more with Tom. Phenolic spacers work until the motor is fully warmed up-then they're useless.
However, I'd like to comment on 2 other items of note: t-body spacers and the lousy method of joining the UIM to the LIM. I fabricated a set of locating bushings which remove all the slop in the factory bolt up for the UIM to LIM. They positively locate the UIM exit ports directly over the LIM entry ports. Do I have dyno tests to prove their effectiveness-NO. Common sense tells me they work.
I also have a custom fabricated .75 aluminum t-body spacer with an integral venturi/ram air/anti-reversion feature. As I had to install studs to attach it to the UIM, plus an extension bushing for the linkage bracket and a spacer at the throttle cable it was difficult to do a back to back when I last dyno'd. However, my non-SVT Duratec makes serious HP with all the stock electronics including the MAF, injectors, fuel rail, precats, LIM & Y pipe. I did do a back to back on the UIM and the 98 SVT is worth 4HP and 7 ft/lbs over my heavily modded/ported stocker.
If anyone is interested I'd be willing to fabricate more UIM to LIM alignment bushings. PM me.
Redcoat Raceworks. Performance parts and custom fabricating for Contours, Mystiques and Cougars. Specializing in chassis and suspension parts. Custom end links, control arms, strut tower bars, engine torque braces, etc.
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