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Joined: Dec 2000
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Dec 2000
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Originally posted by bigMoneyRacing:
APT, knowledgeable post though I will clarify a couple of issues. First the '72 truck reference was to the trailing arms (during a broadcast they'll sometimes call them "truck arms"  "), not brakes.
I know, but your statement about using the same trailing arm design was just as rediculous.
Jato, your ignorance of which you write is astounding. I really don't care if you dislike any type of racing, but you mis-state facts with your skewed perception.
I expect an F1 vehicle to have significantly higher cornering forces than a Nascar vehicle. F1 has a lot more grip and a lot less weight. But what percentage of the time per lap is an F1 car cornering vs. Nascar? I don't know, nor I care, but you are assuming too much.
Of course, Nascar is entertainment. So is every other form of racing in which you do not participate.
BMR's numbers comparing the car/driver swap are interesting, although comparing the best time in each driver's native car is a waste because the car's capabilities are so different. Less than 1.5 seconds differnt between each driver in each car is quite good, IMO, considering the unfamiliarity of the other car. And there is a lot of research to setup the driver's seating position in both cars.
I agree the Kremet is leaving the door open. Really, you should stop digging your hole.
Nascar could not survive in this country on the dollars of rednecks. They cannot afford it.
Arguing "more entertaining" is impossible to do since every person has different values. Jato is impressed with the amount of technology that F1 cars use, while Kremet likes the closeness of competition. While all the technology in the F1 world is impressive, the entertainment and results on the track are less so IMO. To each their own.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 568
Veteran CEG\'er
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Veteran CEG\'er
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 568 |
Originally posted by APT:
Arguing "more entertaining" is impossible to do since every person has different values. Jato is impressed with the amount of technology that F1 cars use, while Kremet likes the closeness of competition.
Agreed wholeheartedly. It's highly subjective declaring one type to be more entertaining than another. Everyone has different priorities.
I, for one, prefer the variety delivered by sports car racing over anything else. My spectating pleasures are derived from visiting dynamic, beautiful venues, and taking in the wide variety of luscious sheetmetal, unadulterated sounds, and rich smells of production-based and prototype racers--with markedly different drivetrain approaches and technology wow-factors--that must have all the bases covered to succeed. The four-races-in-one aspect simply adds to the thrill of not knowing what exactly will be topping the hill next. And the sounds are, to me, unbeatable. Where else can you sample--in one place and for so long--the ear-splitting honk of the 911 GT3 RS, the deceptive, ripping-silk growl of an Audi R8 or Bentley Speed 8, the mad-bumblebee scream of a Mazda rotary prototype, the visceral wail of a Ferrari 360, and the ground-pounding thunder of the Panoz LMP01 and Corvette C5-R?
So, obviously, the monotony of NASCAR's turgid, jelly-belly clunkers running around in circles poses little interest to me, though I find them marginally more tolerable when they're lurching their way around a road course. I can find F1 entertaining mainly because it involves stopping and turning, and a little less so for its challenging venues and technology factor.
If anything, I must--oddly enough--be thankful for Speed TV's tit-sucking submission to NASCAR for the past couple of years...it's forced me to make my way to the actual sports car events and enjoy them for myself.
B. Riley
Melbourne, FL
'01 Camry LE V6/5-spd
Was: '00 Black/Tan SVT Contour #560 - Sold 3/26/03
Before that: '95 Champ/Blue Contour GL V6 ATX
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Joined: Jul 2000
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Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
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Originally posted by APT:
Jato, your ignorance of which you write is astounding. I really don't care if you dislike any type of racing, but you mis-state facts with your skewed perception.
I'd be highly interested to see exactly what facts I've mis-stated. Just curious, since you totally leave this blank in your accusation...
JaTo
e-Tough Guy
Missouri City, TX
99 Contour SVT
#143/2760
00 Corvette Coupe
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Joined: Dec 2000
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Dec 2000
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Originally posted by JaTo:
I'd be highly interested to see exactly what facts I've mis-stated. Just curious, since you totally leave this blank in your accusation...
Quote:
I think that was the polite way of saying that there are too many rednecks...
Watching or racing? As I said, NASCAR is supported by much more than rednecks.
Quote:
Probably comparing it to F1, which makes the sport look like Soap Box Derby's at the local Boy Scout troop, at least in terms of technology...
I skimmed your primer. I already said F1 gets a lot of technology into their cars, and Nascar doesn't. It leaves that technology only in the R&D to devlop the vehicles capablities.
Some notes about the F1 primer proving that "NASCAR as compared to F1 in terms of technology use and is in the Stone Age." NASCAR uses some telemetry whiel on track as well. I do not know what data they log, though. So does F1. F1 uses CAD to design the main tub around the driver. CAD and other 3D modeling programs are also used to design the bodies of NASCAR cars too, but there is less flexability in the measurements. Now, F1 transmissions are quite a lot more advanced than Nascar, but they shift a lot more and benefit more for the investment. Since most tracks are oval and dont' shift except for pitting, quick shifting semi-automatics are overkill and would cost a lot more for the teams to use.
I found the engine mapping PDF interesting since I work with the lady that writes the spark timing software for everyday production vehicles. Quite good information.
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Seriously, I too would love to hear the pinnacles of racing technology that NASCAR has risen to. I need a good laugh.
I do not know what technologies they use to get the brakes to last 3 hours at short tracks, or how they get 800hp out of a small block. But do you think they just throw some parts from Summit on them?
This is getting rediculous. Can we let this go? Different strokes for different folks.
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Joined: Jul 2000
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Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Jul 2000
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Originally posted by APT:
...This is getting rediculous. Can we let this go? Different strokes for different folks.
I thought as much. Little comes from confusing "Fact" from "Opinion", even though the facts (not opinions) I did state are very hard to dispute...
Agreed, though. I'm definitely not interested in a flame war, all shameless jabs aside. Being born and raised in redneck central and having been to KCIR and Texas Motor Speedway on race weekends, I seriously dispute your stand on the demographic of the audience and the scale of support it has through this demographic.  Like I said, I've tried it and failed miserably to enjoy myself at the show. As you said yourself, different strokes for different folks.
JaTo
e-Tough Guy
Missouri City, TX
99 Contour SVT
#143/2760
00 Corvette Coupe
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653
I have no life
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I have no life
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653 |
Originally posted by APT:
I agree the Kremet is leaving the door open. Really, you should stop digging your hole.
What if I like holes?  Seriously though, I think if you thouroughlllly read all of my posts in this thread, you'll see what I'm saying,,, I'm not even gonna type it again it's so old.
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
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