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Joined: Jun 2001
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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yeah - well kinda- thats why I chose this pic- the original GTP and first LMP 900 had a Yates designe NASCAR V8 (loosly ford based)tuned for endurance racing- but then they went to Elan power for the new cars-
and for you NASCAR fans (or partial fans like me) here are your specs- notice higher power than a nascar-
PANOZ LMP-01 Evo 2002 Specifications
Engine: Type Elan Power Products V-8 Alum. Block & Heads
Valvetrain: ohv 2-valve/cyl V-8
Displacement: 6 Liter
Horsepower: 600 + bhp @ 7000 rpm
Torque: 500 + lb-ft @ N/A rpm
Maximum Engine speed: 7250 rpm
Fuel injection: Elan Cross-Ram fuel injection
Rec. fuel: ELF Sportsman 100 Unleaded, Ron 107, Mon 93,
R+M/2=100
Chassis & Body
Layout: front engine/rear drive
Body/frame: carbon-fiber monocoque
Brakes: Front: 15.0-in. vented discs ?? Hitco Carbon Fiber
Rear: 15.0-in. vented discs ?? Hitco Carbon Fiber
Assist type: Non Assisted Dual Circuit
Wheels: BBS 18 x 13-1/2 f, 18 x 15 r
Tires: 33/65-18 f, 37/71-18 r
Steering: Rack & Pinion 7 tooth, Kayaba Electric PAS 5 Position Turns, lock-to-lock: 1 turn
Suspension
Front: upper & lower A-arms, coil-over springs w/ 4 way adj tube shocks, adj anti-roll bar
Rear: upper & lower A-arms, coil-over springs w/ 4 way adj tube shocks, adj anti-roll bar
General Data
Weight: 900Kg
Wheelbase: 108.2 in.
Track, f/r: 64.8 in./63.2 in.
Length: 183.0 in.
Width: 78.6 in.
Height: 42.1 in.
Ground clearance: 1.93? Front / 2.48? Rear
Drivetrain
Transmission: Panoz/Xtrac 6-speed sequential
Gear Ratio Rpm Kph
1st 14/34 7000 138
2nd 17/37 7000 153
3rd 17/30 7000 190
4th 21/30 7000 234
5th 22/28 7000 262
6th 20/23 7000 292
Final drive ratio:10/28
Engine rpm @ 60 mph in 6th: 2300
Instrumentation
Pi Panoz-Sigma Steering Wheel Display, Laptime, Water Temp, Gear Change Lights, Gear Position, RPM on Main Page
Acceleration
Time to speed in seconds
0-10 mph 0.27
0-20 mph 0.58
0-30 mph 0.93
0-40 mph 1.24
0-50 mph 1.66
0-60 mph 2.28
0-70 mph 2.80
0-80 mph 3.21
0-90 mph 3.77
0-100 mph 4.44
Time to distance in seconds
0-100 ft 1.49
0-500 ft 4.92
0-1320 ft 9.34 @ 148 mph
Braking: Minimum stopping distance
From 60 mph 108 Ft
From 80 mph 161 Ft
Economy
Normal driving: 2.3 liters per lap at Road Atlanta
Usage: 0.57 liter per 1km
Fuel capacity: 90 liters
Handling
Lateral acceleration (200-ft skidpad): 1.52 G
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Joined: Oct 2000
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Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
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Funny how Kremit dropped this like a hot potato. 
-- 1999 SVT #220 --
In retrospect, it was all downhill from here. RIP, CEG.
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Posts: 810
Veteran CEG\'er
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Veteran CEG\'er
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I understand how road racing can get boring tho. I mean, if you look at F1, the cars hardly get opportunities to pass which makes for less exciting racing. You can't say the same about Speed's Touring & GT racing though. You get tons of action with some cars you can really relate to.
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I'm a not a big fan really of any one type of racing, though I tend to like Touring cars and WRC. But like others have said, it's apples and oranges we're comparing here. I think part of the allure for NASCAR is the lack of technology. Average Joe Mechanic can understand a lot of the modifications to a standard old GM, Ford, or Mopar pushrod V8, with a carb. Plus, seems like I've heard a few times before, and maybe it's wrong or becoming outdated now, that carbs actually do a better job of atomizing the fuel than injection does. It's just injection is more easily controlled for best milage and less quirky than carbs. A lot of folks don't understand how a DOHC engine works and such, and lets face it, people aren't likely to pay attention to somehting they don't udnerstand.
Also, you can't forget that NASCAR, or stock car racing in general has come a long long way from it's roots. Hot Rod magazine recently had a bunch of pics from throughout the history of it and some pics from the 60's and stuff the cars still had factory dash's with a key hanging from the ignition. It's just since I dunno, mid 70's maybe that they've turned into the cars they are now that only share a body profile with somehting in the showroom. And I hate to say it, but my guess is you're not gonna convert diehard NASCAR fans to touring very easily because a lot of people are still all about Red, White and Blue, Big 3 car racing and don't care to see hopped up german and jap cars buzzing around a road coarse. I dunno, apples to oranges, don't have to like it, but don't have to make it out to be evil either.
Shawn Clone
Jezabel- 1999 SE Sport V6 MTX- Severly wounded, comatose
Silver frost/Black Exterior-Midnight Blue Interior
The Firecracker- 1995 Mystique LS V6 MTX stock and backfiring like a rifle shot
I have 3 loves, my God, Brittany, and my Car.
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,149
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Oct 2000
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If NASCAR changed the car spec to the V8 Supercars from Australia, I'd watch. 
-- 1999 SVT #220 --
In retrospect, it was all downhill from here. RIP, CEG.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,423
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Dec 2000
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Originally posted by Horse:
PANOZ LMP-01 Evo 2002 Specifications
Engine: Type Elan Power Products V-8 Alum. Block & Heads
Valvetrain: ohv 2-valve/cyl V-8
Displacement: 6 Liter
Horsepower: 600 + bhp @ 7000 rpm
Torque: 500 + lb-ft @ N/A rpm
Maximum Engine speed: 7250 rpm
Quote:
Just look at what NASCAR has!
No engine management system
No fuel injection
No overhead or multiple camshafts
No multiple valves
No variable valve timing
No distributor-less ignition
No monocoque chassis
No carbon or aluminium chassis components
No carbon or aluminium suspension
No carbon or ceramic brakes
No independent rear suspension
I don't know about the brakes, but the rest is true. But who cares?
Based on the numbers for the above Panoz, compare to what I found for typical Nascar engines:
Displacement: 351 cu in
Horsepower: 800 + bhp @ 9000rpm
Maximum Engine speed: 9500 rpm
Standard approved bodies may run with 305-358 cubic inch V8 engines equipped with a single Holley 4150 Series four barrel carburetor. Only ??small block?? V8 engines are allowed and the engine displacement may be increased or decreased by boring or stroking. The total displacement must not exceed 358 cubic inches.
Approved Chevrolet engines are: 307, 327, 350 and 400 cubic inches (the latter must have its capacity reduced to 358 cubic inches). Ford approved engines are the 302 and 351 cubic inch models.
Internal polishing, porting, altering and/or reliving of engine parts is permitted. Any piston may be used, but only approved connecting rods are allowed. Cylinder heads are permitted to have only steel or titanium valves, with a limit of two per cylinder. Valve sizes are not restricted and valves may be lightened. Aluminium high performance heads are permitted. The crankshaft must be a standard steel production design. Any steel camshaft may be used. The flywheel must be of steel. Compression ratio is 9.5 : 1 using unleaded fuel.
I have respect for the engine builders and tuners that can accomplish that kind of power despite using a single Holly carb. Certain technology is restricted to help keep the costs lower.
Before one more person spouts off about the 18krpm speeds that some F1 engines are capable of, learn a little more about the engine design. It is a little trick they play, cutting the stroke about in half of typical engines, racing or street. The mean piston speed is no better than a Honda S2000 spinning at 9000rpm. Although you'll never get a manufacturer to tell you any power numbers, the torque is only in the 450lb-ft range. Still quite good for a 3.0L, but nothing to get excited about.
As for people giving engine speeds for length of time, no racing series other than Nascar sustains 8500rpm for 3 hours at a time as some oval circuits require. Most tracks do have a greater engine speed difference, say 7000-9500rpm for 3-4 hours, but some like Daytona and Talledaga sustain over 8200-8500rpm for 3 hours. Every road course has varying engine speeds, from about 40% of maximum engine speed to the rev limiter which is true of every driving series.
The brakes on Nascar vehicles at short tracks have to be engineered pretty well to be effective while glowing from heat for 4 hours, whatever the materials they used. Yeah, I'm sure one's 1972 pickup has brakes as good as them, or his SVT. They fade after a couple hot laps, 5 minutes, not hours.
Really, there is a lot of ignorance on both sides. It is quite annoying. If one doesn't like a certain series, you have that choice to not watch it. Speed TV does have a strong Nascar coverage bias, but it isn't forced on you. you all have 100 other channels to watch, although maybe not about auto racing.
Quote:
You mean the separate cars that have miniscule differences in ride height, fender shape, brake designs, and clunky aluminium plates between the carburetor and intake?
Yes, and all those tiny differences make competitive differences in how the cars perform on certain tracks. Again, I am impressed with the research and engienering that determined how effective which small changes can make significant performance improvements.
Nascar uses technology in R&D, but little in the race vehicle itself. Many other series don't draw that line at the car. That seems to be the only side some people in this thread find valuable. Everyone is entitled to his opinion.
Signed, Neckar fan, yet one of the least redneck people on this board. I am sure stuck up yuppie comes to many peoples' minds that do not know me too well.
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653
I have no life
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I have no life
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653 |
Thank you APT for being a good bit more knowledgable on this subject. I was just defending nascar because these people make it sound like they can throw anything out on the track and be competitive, which obviously isn't true. And I guess people seem to forget that nascars sometimes do see road course driving. They race on sears point,etc. Not as much as oval tracks but they do it. And they run pretty darn good on these tracks as well, especially for having "no technology".
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653
I have no life
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I have no life
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653 |
Originally posted by bigMoneyRacing:
Funny how Kremit dropped this like a hot potato.
Actually I found the thread to be boring after a while and gave it a day or so for someone like APT to actually post what nascars have. After a while I just quit arguing with people, especially when they don't look at the facts and just bad mouth something because they don't like it. I personally like just about every kind of racing. I don't care so much for the F1 racing as it gets pretty boring, but the ones that have vipers,vettes, and then the slower cars all on the same track are pretty cool. WRC is cool, nascar is cool, drag racing is cool, and motorcycle racing is cool.
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,777
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Jun 2001
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lest we quote power numbers in error- the panoz also has to have these bad boys-
AIR RESTRICTORS 2 @ 32mm each - so a combined 64 mm total intake area.
not bashin nascrap- I am a huge ryan newman fan - (BTW the only nascar driver to have an engineering degree) - just pointin a bit to IMHO a better series - ACO sux as we all know - but ALMS and LeMans are the GREATEST!!
ps - for those of you who dont have a clue- Toyota is racing a Celica in the Goodies Dash series (it is a NASCAR series) with a DOHC motor- FYI - so please listen up and learn! 
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Joined: Jan 2003
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Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Thank you APT for being a good bit more knowledgable on this subject. I was just defending nascar because these people make it sound like they can throw anything out on the track and be competitive, which obviously isn't true. And I guess people seem to forget that nascars sometimes do see road course driving. They race on sears point,etc. Not as much as oval tracks but they do it. And they run pretty darn good on these tracks as well, especially for having "no technology".
I don't see how you can say they do good on road coursesI really don't. Watkens Glen this year was the biggest joke of a road race I've ever seen. It's was like a bunch of little kids crashing into each other on a go-kart track. Not to mention the fact that several teams switch drivers for the road courses, which shows the degree of which, these guys have absolutley no idea what the hell they're doing. Boris Said walks in and starts whipping those oval idiots all over the course. Ridiculous
90' Bright Orange Mustang
65k - 13.306@105.1 
Looking for another CSVT
~Blas~
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