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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,602
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,602 |
Originally posted by todras:
What are you differing about? Dan G spoke the truth. You'll need to use the included upper and lower and the injectors from this motor unless you want to fabricate something so you can mate the dual runner intake. Brad Noon said he'd never make another so I'm guessing it isn't fun.
An adapter plate is not required. I did state it required some intelligence and ingenuity. Obviously it is Not for everyone.
I just stated that allowing fuel to go to both valves was more than worth it by itself. The power lost to the caked over secondary valves (power valves!) is significant.
Also I have my theories on why the oval ports would make a better power curve. Someone already flow benched them verses other heads and bone stock they flow within a hair of heavily ported 2.5L heads with 3L valves.  Imagine them after some simple port cleaning (retaining the superior shape and velocity) 
Originally posted by todras:
Bend your oil pick up tube? All you need to do is gring the support bracket off since their is no longer a mounting point for it. The 2 bolts that hold it in seems stout enough to me. The 3L pan is a bit deeper and you might have clearance issues on a lowered car. I just swapped my 2.5 pan and pickup tube over to the 3L. Not a big deal.
I'd rather just get the Correct and updated pickup tube. If you want to skimp on $15 then that's your call. I just think it's a bad one. The support is there for a reason. If it had been determined it was not needed it likely would Not be there to begin with.
BTW - YOU CAN NOT USE the Taurus oil pan or pickup! 'nuff said.
2000 SVT #674
13.47 @ 102 - All Motor!
It was not broke; Yet I fixed it anyway.
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 97
CEG\'er
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OP
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 97 |
Todras - I know the Taurus pan needs to be changed out because itâ??s mated to a different tranny, but the escape also uses the CD4E like the tour. I should be able to keep it, unless its actually deeper, then I wouldn't want to use it on my lowered car... Which motor are you using? DanG - Yeah, I figured the same thing on the oil pan, well I'm hoping. I don't have a 2.5 or any spare parts laying around. If you have any pix of, I'd like to check em out! My tour is the return style system, so I'm going to have to figure out how I'm going to make all the top end work. I'm thinking, 2.5L UIM & 3L LIM w/ 2.5L SVT fuel rail and injectors. Then shape the intake ports/manifolds accordingly. procyon - Good stuff, looks like I'm going to stick to the pan and tube that it came with. I just hope the Escapes pan isn't that much deeper. DemonSVT - You know, I have a UIM from a 98 3L (Big metal one with equal length runners) whatâ??s your thoughts on using this manifold? livinsvt - Long story short, that motor was designed as a naturally aspirated rev monster. A turbo motor requires a different setup, cams, combustion chamber, piston, etc. It would have been too much work to turn that one in to a turbo motor. My plan was to sell it and use that money to build a turbo motor. But I lost my cushy job, so it went on an indefinite hold. This one isn't going to be nearly as wild as the last one, but it's getting a pocket port, deshrouding, deburring and some valves. I'm not going to mess with the CR, I'm going to try and keep it stock or maybe even lower it for future use with a turbo. Look out Warmonger!   
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,602
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,602 |
Originally posted by David Z:
1.but the escape also uses the CD4E like the tour. I should be able to keep it
2. so I'm going to have to figure out how I'm going to make all the top end work. I'm thinking, 2.5L UIM & 3L LIM w/ 2.5L SVT fuel rail and injectors. Then shape the intake ports/manifolds accordingly.
3. DemonSVT - You know, I have a UIM from a 98 3L (Big metal one with equal length runners) whatâ??s your thoughts on using this manifold?
4. This one isn't going to be nearly as wild as the last one, but it's getting a pocket port, deshrouding, deburring and some valves. I'm not going to mess with the CR, I'm going to try and keep it stock or maybe even lower it for future use with a turbo. Look out Warmonger!
1. The Escape uses the same oil pan as the CDW-27 platform Duratecs. You can use it's oil pan, windage tray, and pickup.
2. What 3L LIM? You can pick up a used returnless 2.5L LIM (RLIM) for ~$75. (sometimes less) It has the largest ~33.5mm/35mm ports available.
3. If I happened to do a 3L project I would use the oval port heads (Full 01+ 3L), a RLIM, and a maximum EH'd 2.5L UIM.
I think the 3L UIM would work out decent with some liberal and very consistent porting. (Be careful to make the ports uniform and not constantly change in size)
4. Sounds like a very good plan. 01+ full 3L is the ideal choice too. In my over opinionated opinion of course.
2000 SVT #674
13.47 @ 102 - All Motor!
It was not broke; Yet I fixed it anyway.
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,089
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,089 |
hey david i hope those pics i sent you help you see what has to go into using the SVT LIM vs... your idea of the 3L LIM... either way no matter how you look at it your going to have to make a custom gasket somewhere... but remember.. you have to check if the 3L LIM even bolts to the SVT UIM which is highly unlikely but there is never an answer untill someone tries it.
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,197
I have no life
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I have no life
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,197 |
Originally posted by David Z:
Todras - Which motor are you using?
2001 Taurus.
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 352
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CEG\'er
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Posts: 352 |
Pics requested by DavidZ:
Oil pans- On the left, the '01 Escape pan, complete with pieces of piston (sigh). On the right, a '99 Cougar pan, without the baffle:
Next, the two oil pickups. The one I'm holding is from the '01 Escape. The engine is a '99 2.5L non-SVT. The shape is slightly different, but they have the same depth oil pan and it fits just the same with the slightly different bolt pattern of the 3L crank guard:
Here's the whole '01 3L setup with the crank guard and oil pickup installed:
Note that the 2.5L pickup normally goes to where you see the black bolt in this picture. The 3L pickup just bolts to a stud at the crank guard.
Please let me know if you would like any more pics.
Dan G. and his Cougar
Forged internal (Diamond & Pauter) full 3L, "Monster" Kinger F/I cut & P&P, T3/4 60 trim .82A/R ADC turbo, SPEC Stage 3, Torsen, Greddy Profec-B SPEC II, Apex'i Timer, Lots of Gauges!
Used to have: 3.0L SVT hybrid
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,602
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Sep 2000
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DanG - Are you sure that is an 01 Escape Oil pan and not a 00?
I guess they didn't upgrade it to the 2S7E pan yet. (2 upgrades ago as 3M4Z is the latest (03 Escape) with several drain channels to the sump, 2 new baffles, etc, etc!)
I thought that upgrade covered the 01 model year??? Bummer...
At least it already has the upgraded YL8E windage tray and pickup tube.
2000 SVT #674
13.47 @ 102 - All Motor!
It was not broke; Yet I fixed it anyway.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 344
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CEG\'er
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 344 |
Originally posted by DemonSVT:
DanG - Are you sure that is an 01 Escape Oil pan and not a 00?
I guess they didn't upgrade it to the 2S7E pan yet. (2 upgrades ago as 3M4Z is the latest (03 Escape) with several drain channels to the sump, 2 new baffles, etc, etc!)
I thought that upgrade covered the 01 model year??? Bummer...
At least it already has the upgraded YL8E windage tray and pickup tube.
Demon,
YL8E oil pan & pickup came out for 2.5 (all) & 3.0L (except Taurus, Lincoln, & Jag) with launch of 2001 Escape (no such thing as 2000 Escape)
2S7E pan came out much later, at least a year. It wasn't around long before the 3M4E pan came out for the 2003 model year with the start of the Mazda 6 launch. And guess what folks, there is now another new pan! A 5L8E pan has now replaced the 3M4E pan. Exact same as 3M4E pan but has the gasket integrated into the pan. The new gasket simply presses into a groove in the pan rail just like the front cover or valve cover gaskets. The YL8E pickup is still being used.
Last comment for group: I think it would be beneficial to your fellow CEGers (esp. newbies) to be more specific in descriptions of parts than as 2.5 or 3.0L. For example saying 3.0L oil pan or pickup doesn't cut it anymore since 3.0L Taurus has a different pan & pickup than 3.0L Escape and so on. And then it depends on model year. Maybe we can eliminate some questions during a swap like "Need help, xyz part doesn't fit".
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 97
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OP
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 97 |
Demon - Escape 3L LIM + 98 Taurus UIM
I tried to search for the 3M4E, didn't come up with much. Anyone have any pix of it?
And I realize that the tensioner is in a different position, but what does that translate to? Has anyone acutally tried it?
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,602
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
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03 Escape oil pan 3M4Z-6675-BA Comes with a new gasket and all new hardware for ~$75. About the Escape 3L LIM. Is it that crappy plastic like the new Taurus 3L UIM & LIM are made out off? If so I wouldn't go near it. The port sizes are abysmally small. They only have ~76% of the flow area of the valves! I'm sure that high velocity at low cfm draw is nice for low end torque, but it's not anywhere else in the powerband.
2000 SVT #674
13.47 @ 102 - All Motor!
It was not broke; Yet I fixed it anyway.
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