Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums Modifications Audio Finally Decided

If I were you, I would definitely consider the Shiva even if you are leary of internet businesses. Dan Wiggins, the owner of Adire, is one of the best guys around and his customer service is unparalled. If you would like the security of ordering from a larger company, get the Dayton DVC 12" from www.partsexpress.com, it is essentially the same woofer.

Now, if you really do have your heart set on the 10" speakers, try the Lambda Acoustics PL series that www.stryke.com sells. I've mentioned it in other posts. It is without question, the best sub I have ever heard. It is exactly what you seem to be looking for. SQ comes first, but with a 14mm xmax, it can move some air when called upon. You can order it in a variety of VC configurations also. John Janowitz is the owner of Stryke, and although, currently swamped, works his a$$ off to help out us bassers.

If you REALLY don't like ordering from internet sources, The JL10W3s maybe better options for the amp you are getting. The JL10W6 are optimized to run in groups of 3 with either a 4 or 1 ohm load.

There are a number of other good quality subs out there, also.

A couple things. First, I just looked up the specs on the JL W6 12" from the mfr site and those speakers are seriously inefficient at 84dB/watt. I believe the Dayton/Shiva is 91dB/watt which means that you need over 4 times the power to get the same sound level (SPL). Then the JL is only rated up to 300w. So, in theory, you can get 10 more dB out of the Shiva, that's TEN TIMES AS LOUD!

If you want to know were to look for Shiva information or the Dayton 12" DVC twin, check out www.adireaudio.com or www.partsexpress.com. Also, user messages about said products, http://64.37.116.230/cgi-bin/config.pl. You can also check out
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/...294&forumid=23.

As for buying electronics over the internet, Parts Express has a 45 day money back gaurantee. I have purchased a quite a few things from there with prompt delivery (always next day with UPS ground). Specifically, I just purchased 2 of the 15" Dayton DVC for my home theater use. Let me just say that very few people need more bass than that, and I'm only putting 100 watts to each of them.

I have also save a lot of money buying other things over the internet. 3 receviers, and some other bookshelf speakers are the larger ticket items. You just have to read the return policy and there are even web sites that rate e-tailers like bizrate.

Aaron, actually, 10 dB is twice as loud. 10 times as loud is would be somewhere around 32-33 dB. But everything else in your post looks right!

Ok, if you want JL's and you have not bought them yet get 3 W3' in dual 4 ohm series parallel them (2.33ohms) Of get 2 dual 2 and seies parallel them (2 ohm) When visiting the JL dealer have them look up in ther JL handbook (large book REAL JL dealers have) and ask them the hooking up one coil question. If they have a clue they will chuckle and say that is a no-no. Will it work YES, should you do it NO.

Why would any one company make a single coil woofer if on a dual coil woofer it is ok to use only one coil?????

As for the efficiency of the JL, they release true specs, many "manufactures" LIE to get you to buy their products ( I work for one, suckers are born everyday from the BS I write; I could really blown some of your minds away) I doubt the 91db is for real if it has a xmax around 14mm. I have the test equipment, you got one send it over I will be happy to post my results. (Woofer would be retuned, as I have no need for it......lol)

As for sound quaility JL is a good choice. But using any class D may have thrown that right out the window. The D does not stand for Digital (where are the fiber Optic cables at.....lol) That is another BS line a marketing firm came up with that everyone swallowed, hope those guys got paid well cause it was a good one.

I have a woofer you may be interested in it is a dual 2 ohm 12' woofer made in the same factory as Eclipse and Kove (dnewma04 knows who I am talkign about) I will have full pics and specs this weekend and will elaborate more then.

I had more to say but when i hit submit the thing froze and all is lost in cyber space.....oh well

Well, I have the 15" version of the driver in question, actualy 2 of them each in their own boxes, tuned to a tested 18Hz. I have test equipment also. Here's what I got. 20Hz, 21.8V, 105dB on RS meter, uncorrected, at the seat which is 10 feet away from each sub. Each one is a wired coils in parallel which is a 4ohm load. I ran out of power (not much more than 21.8V) with the test recevier I am using until I decide how much power I want to buy. I believe the correcting factor for the RS meter at 20Hz is +7.5dB. So, you can figure out how efficient the speakers are for yourself. I'll just say they have been proven by more than myself that the specs are accurate. I don't think ANY MFR lies about their driver specs, they often just do not publish them since 1) most poeple don't know what they mean and 2) they only sell the whole package, no drivers alone.

And for $110, the 12" should be equally as good, which is a hell of a better value than the JL costing twice as much.

Link to driver specs:
http://www.partsexpress.com/Tech/295-185.html

I'm sure that Dan Wiggins would be more than willing to supply you with his DUMAX test results and any other paperwork you need. As a subwoofer designer, I'm sure he is intimately aware of correct testing procedures. Now, one thing about the DIY market, is there is no such thing as marketing, it is marketed by word of mouth and personal experiences. If you market a product that doesn't reach its specs, you will eaten alive. Consider this, how many Car Audio "experts" know much more than basic installation principles? The answer is probably less than 5%. The number of car audio buyers that know the tech side is probably well under 1%. Now, it's easy for car audio companies to deceive their customers (No, i don't think JL does this) because they have a relatively unknowledgeable market.

Now, let's look at the DIY market. I am probably the least knowledgeable customer that Adire has sold a product to. I have been doing this for almost a decade and every day, i'm in awe of how much more everyone seems to know. The guys I deal with in my daily interactions are every bit as knowledgeable as Richard Clark and all the other mobile gurus. If Adire sold them junk, adire would cease to exist.

You were correct on a couple of issues. The T/S parameters, well one anyway (qts) will change one using only one coil of a DVC woofer, but this can be counter acted by shorting the other coil. The Xmax will remain the same unless their is some inherent problem in the design of the speaker. And again, using one VC will not damage a well made DVC speaker, it will perform very well, but less effeciently. And again, I go back to my original stance, if there is a SVC woofer made for the application, don't get a DVC and use one coil. But if you had a DVC woofer, don't be afraid that the speaker will self destruct by using one coil.

If they have a clue, they will not be chuckling at the question, but that a customer is going to pay more money for a speaker that would not work as well as a cheaper one. If they chuckle because you shouldn't do it for reliability reasons, one of two things is happening. One, they know what they are talking about and my respect for JL Audio has plummeted. Or two, they have no idea about the technical side of speaker design, which is more likely in about 95% (probably more) of the cases.

arch13angel: That would be fun. If SVTweeter is ever in Oklahoma during an IASCA even just let me know, or if SVTweeter might attend the IASCA finals look me up.

This next statement is directly from JL in an email they sent me about this subject:

"You absolutely must hook up both voice coils on a subwoofer. If you only hook up one side of the voice coil it would be like playing only half the woofer. You will loose output capability. Hope this information helps out. Thank you."

--
Bill Hamze
Technical Support Specialist
JL Audio Inc.
bhamze@jlaudio.com
http://www.jlaudio.com

I have since sent a reply asking about the woofers warranty if only one coil is used. I will post their reply as well. As you can see JL stands behind the NO-NO for one coil on a DVC speaker being used. So if the JL tech has no clue then we are all in trouble....

So dnewma04 if you were making a speaker and had a choice between making it a single vc or dual, wouldn't you make just the dual since that according to you it is ok to use one coil? That is plain logic, why make a SVC if a DVC can have just one coil being used???????? I think the singe coil would then become extinct. Manufactures want to make money so if they could lower the cost of making woofers by eliinating the single woofer design (a DVC may cost more to produce, but now they wont have to make a svc) and just making dual coils dont you think they would?

Many manufactures do lie about specs, if you happen to have Bass Box or other well designed woofer software, when placing their "specs" it comes out totally not possilbe in some cases.(Bass Box has a way of knowing what is and what isn't possible based on tolerances) Not everyone does it, but I know of just a few manufactures off the top of my head that change specs to make their woofer more appealing. I am not saying they are drastically changing them, but I have seen the actual DUMAX sheets from DLC on several woofers and their "published" spec is not correct at all. Hifonics one time actually faxed me DLC's Dumax sheet, then I went to their site and the specs were not the same. I have no reason to lie about what I know, this is a Contour website not an audio forum were some hoser would walk in and start acting like an A** thinking he knows all. I know for sure that I am not Richard Clark and I could learn alot from others, anyone who says otherwise is just ignorant. If you think I am wrong thats fine, like I said why would I lie?

Just trying to enlighten a few souls thats all....

This just in from JL regarding the skull and crossbones waring on their DVC coil woofer:

My question to them was this:

Thanks for the reply, I just need one more thing from you. Did JL Audio EVER put a paper in a new woofer with a Skull and crossbones stating that not using both coils will void your warranty.

Reply:

As a matter of fact we do have a card with that warning.

--
Bill Hamze
Technical Support Specialist
JL Audio Inc.
bhamze@jlaudio.com
http://www.jlaudio.com

I think that should end any disagreements right there.