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Originally posted by linabby:
Ok let me get this straight. Its the presidents job to tell gay people they cant get married but its not his job to help to ensure children are safe???? I think its every americans job to make sure our children are safe.
Bzzzt, uhhh no, go back and read what I said again.
TB
"Seems like our society is more interested in turning each successive generation into cookie-cutter wankers than anything else." -- Jato 8/24/2004
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Originally posted by LoCoChick:
Originally posted by sigma:
Morals change significantly over time, as does the Pope. Even the Catholic Church will allow them to marry in even the foreseeable future once it's made fully legal in the US.
In the Bible, it is stated that marriage is between a man and a woman. Gay people should not be allowed to marry MORALLY speaking--because MORALLY it is wrong. Whether or not it is made legal is a civil/government issue. But the Catholic Church will never sanction gay marriages.
Yeah, and the catholic church will never sanction divorce either...Oh wait a minute, I forgot, they will if you have connections and you cough up enough money. They have a sliding scale based on how long you've been married and how many kids you have. 
W3RD!!
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But thus do I counsel you, my friends: distrust all in whom the impulse to punish is powerful!
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Originally posted by daenku32:
Btw, I don't hate Catholics. I think they are just as likeable as Muslims, Southern Baptists, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Scientologists, Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus, Satanists, etc etc..
New Agers should be included too.
Dueling Duratecs
'95 SE V6 MTX 0 Mods
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'03 Kawasaki Z1000
But thus do I counsel you, my friends: distrust all in whom the impulse to punish is powerful!
Friedrich Nietzsche
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Originally posted by linabby:
If I was bush I would be talking about enforcing stricter penalties for child molesters and rapists. Give me a reason to keep you in office.
Uh, because 99% of sex crimes are enforced by STATE LAW, not federal law. Only sex crimes covered under federal statute are child porn transmitted or shipped across state lines via Internet or mail, and crossing state lines for sexual contact with a minor, i.e. some perv meeting a kid online and arrainging a meeting for sex.
The Federal government has dramatically stepped up enforcement of these stautes under the current administration, although that is probably due to the fact that Internet sex crimes against children are more in the public eye these days and committed more frequently than in the early days of the Net.
When Bush was a governer, he was pretty damn strict in enforcing STATE criminal code. Didn't the bleeding hearts cry a river for all the murdering vermin he allowed to be sent to meet their Maker?
Also, you have shown great ignorance of the system by confusing PRIVATE funds donated to political campaigns, which is an excercise of free speech as provided under Ad.1 of the US Constituiton, and funding of programs with TAX DOLLARS, which are compulsory.
Beleive whatever you will, I will not begrudge your right to do so, but your arguments will carry a lot more weight with a little education. I do not say this to belittle you, only to encourage you. If you are firm in your convictions and knowledge, and not leaving yourself open to be picked apart, you will be far more successful in changing minds, or at least engaging in honest debate.
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Originally posted by linabby:
http://www.kidsincars.org/statistics.html
Enough said
Im not going to keep beating the horse My opinon is things like human life are more important than future campaigning. Just show me where he has addressed this issue.
Again, this is more than covered under state law. Leaving a kid to cook in a car? Sounds like manslaughter to me, which is gross neglect or indifference resulting in loss of human life. In this state, that is up to 20 years.
Rape? Sexual Assault 1 is up to life here. Pretty harsh, and appropriate.
Of course, the punishment handed out is up to the judge and Prosecutor.
If your local DA or Prosecutor, or judges if they are elected locally (they are in WV) are not handling such cases properly, then by God fight to support an opponent to replace them next election.
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Ok... this should be a quicky from me.
Those who blanketly hate Catholics are no different to me than anyone who hates any religion, race, sex, age, whatever. To pin a blanket hatred on entire group of people is wrong, regardless of the group.
That being said, the idea of hating what a certain religion states, teaches, insinuates, etc., is an entirely different matter. I don't hate Catholic churches, but, I loathe THE Catholic Church. They're so backward in their ideas, deny the fact that they SHOULD be practicing Judaism (Jesus was a Jew, folks, deal with it), and, generally are just as keen on taking your money as any political party I've ever seen. I HATE the filthy bastards that raped and molested innocent children. I don't hate The Church because of that... although given the stances of some of its leaders almost makes me want to rethink that sentiment.
For example... "Gay marriage is wrong." Why? What makes it immoral? Don't give me some bull$#it quote from the bible. I hold that book in as much regard as any novel I've read by Stephen King. (Flame suit primed, waxed, ready to go)Give me hard facts. Who does it harm? Which of the Ten Commandments does it break? F*ck all the Psalms, Letters from Paul, etc. Let's get down to basics. THE orders of GOD, handed to Moses on Sinai. Nowhere in that code is "Thou shalt not marry of the same sex." NOWHERE. Granted, "Thou shalt not molest your altar boys," is nowhere to be seen, either. But, I digress. What, precisely, is wrong with marriage? They don't bear children? What about those who are medically sterile? Should they not be allowed to marry? Although, to somewhat fight this argument, a lesbian I know gave birth to a child after multiple inseminations. She wanted to give birth to and love a child so badly, she was willing to spend essentially everything she had, endure a difficult pregnancy, and a rather tough childbirth, IIRC. I can guarantee you she will love her child more than a good portion of the so-called "parents" around now.
Now, let's travel back in time. Let's say to... oh, I dunno.. 0028. Jesus is 27. Two gays come up to him. They're shunned from society, just like lepers. They tell him they've heard his teachings, believe in, and love him, and that they want to join together in marriage. What would he say? You're filthy heathen freaks? I seriously doubt it. Would he beg them to renounce? Probably not. He would accept them for the HUMAN BEINGS that they are. In fact, he would probably baptise and marry them right then and there. It's amazing how The Church can take all the ideals of Jesus (love your fellow man, do unto others, etc.), and just gloss over them because one person with "authority" decided to write a bunch of letters spreading The Word, with his own spin on them, saying how it was wrong to do x, y, and z.
Anyway, back to the original point of that post. Great, he was a Catholic priest. He gave his life to save those children. My grade school teachers would have done the very same thing. As would construction workers, so would lifeguards, so would anyone with half a brain and half a heart. Being a priest is happenstance.
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Originally posted by bishop375:
Ok... this should be a quicky from me.
Those who blanketly hate Catholics are no different to me than anyone who hates any religion, race, sex, age, whatever. To pin a blanket hatred on entire group of people is wrong, regardless of the group.
That being said, the idea of hating what a certain religion states, teaches, insinuates, etc., is an entirely different matter. I don't hate Catholic churches, but, I loathe THE Catholic Church. They're so backward in their ideas, deny the fact that they SHOULD be practicing Judaism (Jesus was a Jew, folks, deal with it), and, generally are just as keen on taking your money as any political party I've ever seen. I HATE the filthy bastards that raped and molested innocent children. I don't hate The Church because of that... although given the stances of some of its leaders almost makes me want to rethink that sentiment.
For example... "Gay marriage is wrong." Why? What makes it immoral? Don't give me some bull$#it quote from the bible. I hold that book in as much regard as any novel I've read by Stephen King. (Flame suit primed, waxed, ready to go)Give me hard facts. Who does it harm? Which of the Ten Commandments does it break? F*ck all the Psalms, Letters from Paul, etc. Let's get down to basics. THE orders of GOD, handed to Moses on Sinai. Nowhere in that code is "Thou shalt not marry of the same sex." NOWHERE. Granted, "Thou shalt not molest your altar boys," is nowhere to be seen, either. But, I digress. What, precisely, is wrong with marriage? They don't bear children? What about those who are medically sterile? Should they not be allowed to marry? Although, to somewhat fight this argument, a lesbian I know gave birth to a child after multiple inseminations. She wanted to give birth to and love a child so badly, she was willing to spend essentially everything she had, endure a difficult pregnancy, and a rather tough childbirth, IIRC. I can guarantee you she will love her child more than a good portion of the so-called "parents" around now.
Now, let's travel back in time. Let's say to... oh, I dunno.. 0028. Jesus is 27. Two gays come up to him. They're shunned from society, just like lepers. They tell him they've heard his teachings, believe in, and love him, and that they want to join together in marriage. What would he say? You're filthy heathen freaks? I seriously doubt it. Would he beg them to renounce? Probably not. He would accept them for the HUMAN BEINGS that they are. In fact, he would probably baptise and marry them right then and there. It's amazing how The Church can take all the ideals of Jesus (love your fellow man, do unto others, etc.), and just gloss over them because one person with "authority" decided to write a bunch of letters spreading The Word, with his own spin on them, saying how it was wrong to do x, y, and z.
Anyway, back to the original point of that post. Great, he was a Catholic priest. He gave his life to save those children. My grade school teachers would have done the very same thing. As would construction workers, so would lifeguards, so would anyone with half a brain and half a heart. Being a priest is happenstance.
OK, I do NOT claim to be a very religious person. I have many questions about Faith. However, I can see where one would say Jesus would not approve of homosexuality.
For example, Revelations 21....
6He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
I think the Bible is clear that homosexuality is "sexually immoral".
Next, in Revelations 22, Jesus again specifically mentions the "sexually immoral" to be left out of the Kingdom of God, and just to be sure, WARNS that any words of His prophecy are not to be deleted.....
12"Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
14"Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
16"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."
17The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.
18I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
I am not bringing this up to preach to anyone, again I question my own faith, but only to point out that if one is a believer, here are the words of Christ himself, and also to foster understanding, in reply to the previous post, that not only does the Old Testement and the letters from Paul denounce homosexuality, but the words of Christ himself. And, please, no mumbo-jumbo that Revelations is a parable, or not true. If one truly beleives in the Doctrine of Christianity, then one must heed prophecy, as the life of Christ was fortold in prophecy, so is the promise of his return and all that it will bring.
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