Originally posted by sigma:
Actually, the Bible does mention slavery, Jato. On a number of occassions.



I totally agree that slavery is mentioned in the Bible, as I've said before. The moral aspects of it aren't, which is what I've been beating into the mud.

Originally posted by sigma:
Philemon himself was a slave owner and has a whole chapter devoted to him.



And what is the CORE message of that chapter?

Originally posted by sigma:
However, it gives conflicting information on God's standing in the matter, and the same passage can be easily translated into 2 contradictory statements.

But, look at Phillipians 2:3, Corinthians 7:21,24, Philemon 1:15,16, and Timothy 1:10 just for a few.



I have (long before this) and I'm finding nothing that directly or really even indirectly talks to the moral implications behind slavery: the core question of it addressed in scripture as being morally RIGHT or WRONG. This is even going through KJ, NIV, NASB and RSV translations that I have at my disposal...

...and also remembering any number of lectures I had in a Comparative Religions and an Ethics/Morals class, not to mention a NUMBER of discussions with a Catholic priest about.

I will give you that the OT delineates a number of regulations and laws concerning the ownership of slaves. This doesn't expressly talk about whether slavery is right or wrong, though.

Throughout it's passages, the NT loosely states to treat slaves well. That's all fine and dandy but it says nothing of the morality behind slavery.

Jesus treated criminals well; this in of itself most certainly doesn't address if being criminal is morally right or wrong. It merely provides yet another example of forgiveness and tolerance and what Christian fellowship is supposed to be about...

I'm not even going into the owership of slaves by the Church, by priests and by other prominent figures in the Bible and what assumption can be drawn from that (OT or NT, pick either one). Remember, slaves were a class unto themselves back them. It's acceptance by the Judeo-Christian religion FAR into the Middle-Ages and beyond is a HISTORICAL fact and one that is not in doubt.

Originally posted by sigma:
Some translate Philemon 1:15,16 as meaning that Paul supported the idea of slavery. Some translate it as meaning he did not. Also, some versions translate "servant" as "slave" and vice versa, and can be inconsistent in what they translate as what.



I've said it once and I'll say it again. Paul can be a beast to read. I'd argue that it has little to do with slavery save in name only; Paul was talking in terms of Christian fellowship and botherhood with one another in light of past circumstances (one being a slave and the other being the master). The core message of Philemon is one of having a believer put down the laws of the Earth (a slave that stole from his master was punishable by death under Roman law) in order to fulfill Christian works with someone who had and still should have (under Roman law) a VERY different role in society.

If Paul wanted to denounce the evils of slavery, a lecture would have been in order, as it was on any number of other subjects. Not a simple letter or plea. Again, don't forget the prevalance of slavery and the total acceptance of it in any society in 60 AD. Not for one minute.

As it is, Jesus himself had a number of chances to denounce slavery in a number of sermons, being that he was surrounded by it on a number of occasions...

Why wasn't it taken?

Originally posted by sigma:
Again, it's all in the translation. But slavery is brought up, in a moral aspect, several times in the Bible.



I'm sorry, but I just can't agree with this. I've read the Bible cover-to-cover, with references and without. The fundamental moral question of slavery being right or wrong remains unanswered in it's entirety. The treatment and laws of slavery are discussed, yes. The moral aspect of OWNING another human being as property is never touched.

History shows that it was an entirely acceptable institution within the Church and without in any number of societies and civiliations.

Originally posted by sigma:
It's just not consistent in what it says about it.

I've found nothing on it stating whether slavery was right or wrong, and I've looked like mad, hoping to find something, ANYTHING that could be stretched to resemble a discourse on the evils of owning another human being.

Now, after that HUGE tangent, back to regular programming...

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