Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums General Troubleshooting New developments... not the head gaskets...pls read

My 98 CSVT is sitting at the dealership for oil in the water. Today, the tech did the test and said that the oil cooler is leaking and that that is the only leak he could find in the system.

I thought that the external oil cooler didn't have coolant running through it and that it was air cooled only. Now does the oil also flow through the bottom of the radiator as in most other applications?

The test's that Matt did to come to this conclusion was a leakdown test on the cylinder's, less than 5% on all of them, eliminating head gasket. A dye in the coolant to detect a cracked block or cracked head, nothing there either.

On a side note, the engine has been Helicoiled(sp) before. Today, when Matt took out the #4(front bank all the way to the left) spark plug, the heli coil came out. first off, he had no clue what it was and then he said that the plug will not seat correctly and that I need a new head.

He did get it back in, obviously, because he did that before doing the dye test,which requires the engine to be running. He says that I need the new head because sooner or later the plug is just gonna blow right out.

I say, put in a new helicoil or give it to me and I'll be on my way to a machine shop to have them do it. Second, if he damaged my head, he owes me a new one.

All in all, total damage for what they want to do, 3100 bucks. Includes new head, pulling off the other one and having it checked, all the gaskets and TTY bolts, new plugs(WTF, mine are fine), new oil cooler, engine flush, coolant flush, and labor.

I think a bit off unecessary work is trying to be done here and money being spent that doesn't need to be.

Does anyone know about the oil cooler that can help me out? I go see them tomorrow morning and the more I know the better I am. Thanks alot,
Mike

Edit: Here's a link to the original problem post

http://www.contour.org/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=007981

I found this on http://www.stuff.to/svtspecs.php

Water-to-Oil Cooler mounted to left side of engine block with the oil filter mounted on its end, water returning from the radiator to the engine block first runs through the cooler

So I guess it is possible for it to be the problem, now I wonder if this yahoo want's to drop the engine to do this as well?

I dont think you can blame the tech if the spark plug already had a helicoil in it from a previous repair.I'd advise the head off ,which may be too far gone for another repair.This is costly re heads off with engine in situ.The oil to water plate cooler is a standard feature on many engines but I have yet to see one fail.Think you will have to bite the bullet on this one or DIY it....

Considering the tech didn't know a helicoil I think I would get second opinion on saving the head without removal. Take it back to place that did original fix.

p.s. A closing post to your prior topic and 2 way links to/from this one would provide continuity and help members browsing topics or doing a search.

Yeah, it could be a bad cooler, but still don't overlook the head gasket. Just because the cylinders are not leaking by, is just one type of potential head gasket failure. Remember, you can have the following types of head gasket failures on newer OHC motors: (1.) Pressurized oil port into water port while running (Becomes pressurized water leading into that oil port when engine is turned off if cooling system is pressurised at that time). (2.) Pressurized water into oil drainback port. (3.) Oil port to cylinder. (4.) Water port to cylinder. (5.) Cylinder to Cylinder (6.) Cylinder to outside of eng block. (7.) Water port to outside of eng block. (8.) Oil port to outside of eng block. (9.) Some or all of the above mixed.

My point is that just because the leak isn't from a cylinder to a water or oil port, then how do you know, because the head gasket is sealing many ports simultaniously

As far as the helicoil in the head goes, A PROPERLY installed sparkplug helicoil should last the life of the vehicle.

Well, Friday I went down there and spoke to the tech, service advisor and SVT as well.

For the oil in the water, they say it is definitely the oil cooler. This concerns me as they have only performed a cylinder leak down test and nothing else.
A new one should go in today. An engine flush, coolant flush and decarb is gonna happen as well.

I also looked at the plugs. The plug that had the Helicoil on it was not the hole that was giving him trouble as I was originally told. It was the #4 plug alright, it had backed out a little. This might be the source of the stuttering and bank 2 lean code that I was getting.
Anyway, while doing so, it apparently messed up the hole enough to where the plug would not stay in, so says Matt. Myself and my buddy looked at it and while there is some damage to it(there was a bit of shine to it), not enough to warrant a new head to the tune of $513 plus 15 or so hours labor to replace it. I asked that they replace the plugs as I believe that it will not be an issue for anytime soon.

As for the Helicoil, as it turns out, it is not. A Helicoil can come out but it would be wrapped around the threads of the spark plug. What is actually on there is a copper "crush" washer or "indexing washer". I called SVT and told the gentleman there of my situation. He said that the copper washer that is on the plug sounds exactly like an indexing washer. This is an old performance trick used to get the plug in perfectly in an attempt to get every bit of horsepower out of the engine.

On the plus side, I'm getting Matt to put on my DMD at only an hour labor.

Terry, horsey and Josch thanks for the help.

Horsey, I'm gonna put in the links to the other posts, thanks.

Mike

Try looking at the VW ones. They will certainly fail at some point in their life. In my VW (not the same car I know but read on) oil started to appear in the coolant. The previous owner thought it was the head gasket. He removed the head, found no problem w/the gasket and re-installed head after some machine work was done. I bought the car one week after the headwork and saw oil still in coolant. Swapped out the stock water/oil cooler to a Setrab air/oil cooler and no more oil in my coolant. After doing some research on this, it looks as though the VW coolers corrode internaly which allows the two fluids to mix. Because of the previous owners bad diagnosis I ended up w/a freshly rebuilt head on my car.

Good luck w/the helicoil problem Mike!

Alex, any idea if there are air to oil coolers available for the contiques? do these generally work better or about the same as far as cooling effeciency?
Thanks,
Mike

This morning I was reunited with my baby to the tune of $1,138.89. Much better than the original guesstimate of $3,300.00 which included a new head and other such stuff.

I'm so happy to have her back and I even got the DMD on it now.
Man that engine is soooo smooth now just like everyone says.

Mike

And for that amount they did ..
DMD
Oil cooler
Helicoil fix
Rad flush and coolant
Oil and filter
??