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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 17,248
CEG road warrior
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CEG road warrior
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 17,248 |
Originally posted by MFE:
LoCo, we're on to you. At least I am. I've seen the pattern. You'd rather keep arguing than admit you were wrong. Which you are.
  Keep your comments to yourself.
Hector
2003 Rally Red Mitsubishi Evolution VIII
257HP/259TQ
2005 Lapis Blue Mazda 6s
RET: 00 Cabernet Red Ford Contour Zetec ATX SUPERCHARGED
160HP/141TQ
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653
I have no life
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I have no life
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653 |
so if drilled rotors are bad? how about just slotted, dem any good? and how much does a full FSVT brake conversion cost (i also have to change drums to discs in rear)? thankz.
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810 |
Originally posted by Todd TCE:
A bit of history.... All of this makes fun reading keep in mind.
About ten years ago now I first started producing the SHO kits after I left Bondurant. Took them to the conventions and such to pedal them. Others there were selling the 'soon to be the norm' drilled rotors in stock size. (this was when companies like ****** were tiny and finding the nitch in drilling Chinese rotors, plating them and selling them to kids!) So, when I was asked why I did not offer them drilled on the SHO kits I replied that they were too risky and short lived that I'd prefer not to. In fact for many years I REFUSED to. Well....what do I know? That big shop in *** offers them and they know the SHO (just ask em) and THEY sell them so I must be high!
As time went by (years that is) I caved in and did a few. And I also heard the horror stories of all those ones sold by **** and ***** that cracked or nearly exploded! I also found that new kits like the Eclipse and Impala were also asking for it. Others such as ****** and ****** were selling them! Well, common sense and a mortgage over ruled my better judgement and I now offer them. Do I push them? Nope. Do I run them? Yup. On a 1500lb race car. And for weight reduction only.
Do you need them. Nope. But hey, there's always Turbo Grooves and Heat Slots (wtf is that??) not to mention other buzz words. Let's face it, if one of us doesn't offer it the other will and it's still a business.
BTW, did I mention they look cool?
This is a good example of human nature. Everywhere in life this situation will present itself over and over again in different forms (philosophically speaking  ). Cynical though it may seem, you can show a man all the evidence in the world and it makes no sense until it happens to him. The way I see it, expect the worst from people until you learn otherwise...then you'll never be blind-sided with surprises unless they're good ones.
Todd, you have been very honest on this board and that is something I am very happy about. I read and learn and I am thankful for it.
BTW, cross-drilled rotors? Not me. Not that they don't look cool, I'm just too cheap to spend money if it doesn't it doesn't change my performance numbers. That's not to say I don't spend money, just I want to have some effect for it other than BlingBling.
Tom
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 383
CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 383 |
Cross-drilled rotors sure am good mm-hmmm:    These are rotors on a Maxima that are nearly two inches bigger than stock so technically they should be better at handling thermal energy despite the holes, and guess what, they cracked anyway. The lessons here are 1) Cross-drilling REDUCES THE THERMAL CAPACITY of the rotor due to decreased mass, therefore overall braking capacity is REDUCED compared to same-size, same-composition rotors that are not drilled. 2) Cross drilling compromises the integrity and therefore the safety of the rotors even if they are big enough to accomodate the heat 3) Stay away from cross-drilled rotors. unless you live in LoCoLand where earthly physics don't apply...
Pacific Green '96 Contour LX V6
â??98 GTP, light mods, 14.66/94
Calypso Green '92 Mustang LX coupe, 13.56/101
Crown Autocross Club 1999 Street Tire Champion, 2000/2001/2002 Street Modified Champion
KCR SCCA 2002 Solo II Street Modified Champion
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 337
CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 337 |
It's not really the thermal mass of the rotor that causes the cracks, it's the difference in temps of the iron around the holes and their changes in expansion/contraction. You have a 750 degree rotor and 75 degree air blasting through it. They don't like that kind of stuff.
For street looks and use they are fine. For extended track use they should be avoided.
If you want to take it to the next level, the rotors shouldn't be bolted to the hats either. Floating rotors are the ultimate answer. And price.
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 383
CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 383 |
I know it's not the thermal mass that causes the cracks, it's the stress risers caused by drilling them and the uneven cooling that results from the holes being there. Just another reason not to do it.
Pacific Green '96 Contour LX V6
â??98 GTP, light mods, 14.66/94
Calypso Green '92 Mustang LX coupe, 13.56/101
Crown Autocross Club 1999 Street Tire Champion, 2000/2001/2002 Street Modified Champion
KCR SCCA 2002 Solo II Street Modified Champion
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,223
"Absolut Rara."
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"Absolut Rara."
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,223 |
Yeah, when you've upsized the rotor, the loss of thermal mass rarely becomes an issue; that really only comes into play when you cross-drill a stock size rotor that is borderline for thermal capacity.
And yeah, the cracks are due to a combination of uneven cooling and the additional stress concentration right at the points where the cooling differential is the worst.
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 682
Veteran CEG\'er
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Veteran CEG\'er
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 682 |
Originally posted by MFE:
Whaddya gonna do, CRY? Why don't YOU keep YOUR crackhead comments to YOURself? You're talking out your ass on this one and anyone who follows your advice does so at their peril, but the uninitiated might not know that if it weren't pointed out
Fer chrissake, all he said was his EXPERIENCE, that the plain rotors he used warped, and the particular drilled rotors he used did not. Why not take that as a point of real-world data, instead of throwing a tantrum? You can argue about theories and generalities all day, but you can't argue with what has actually happened. That's like trying to prove that the Raiders had to have won the super bowl, after it's been played.
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,632
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,632 |
I think he was referring to the fact that Loco told MFE to keep his comments to himself.
Sometimes this place has more drama then the finales of American Idol and The Bachelor combined. 
"Cobb - It's not just for corn anymore!"
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