Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums Modifications 3.0L Duratec 3.0L Hybrid Dyno Plot 5/17/03

What we are ultimatly trying to accomplish is running the 3L correctly on 24lb injectors and combining it with the venom VCN2000 kit. It sounds like Tweecer would be a good way to go especially if Mark wants to port and polish his UIM/LIM later on. Obviously we cant run any piggyback setups like the SAFC because it will interfere with the Venom controller so the Tweecer or a Chip is all we have. Now how do you know what processor you have? The tweecer website lists a bunch of supported ones but I have no clue which one is a 2000 Contour SVT. Mark do you already know?

Also, Who is running the Tweecer besides Demon? Truthfully how hard is it to learn? Im pretty versed in PCM functions because ive had to edit mine on the truck some but I dont want Mark to throw out the money for it if its something thats impossible to grasp. What should I start reading?

Greg is the only one running the setup. As for the EEC code either look in the drivers side door jam, or pull down the glove box and look at the EEC itself.

As for which one to use. Personally, I'm going the flip chip route. Yes, if you have brains and know who to tune those are all good routes, BUT with the knowledge that 90% of us have, I think the S-AFC, Emange, etc are going to get you into big trouble if you try screwing with it yourself AND your running the bottle.

As for "Porting and Polishing" his UIM/LIM, his upper was already DH twice. And he does have the 'larger' LIM IIRC as well.

As for reading material, I'd say the Mustang book that covers the EEC-IV system indepth would be the first place to start.

I had one before Demon. You want a KBAN7 for a 2000 SVT. Be careful, some of the stuff is not what it seems. Sometimes up is down and down is up.

Okay lets look at the chip option, If we went ahead and put the 24 lb injectors in, How are we going to get a good dyno graph to the guy burning the chip? Would we have to get him to just burn us a chip for the injectors, then do a dyno run and send him back the chart to fine tune the chip again or what?

Also how close can they tune the chips without actually being on the dyno, Do you think it will be close enough to make some descent power and stay out of trouble?

I dont think the chip is a bad idea because after putting on the venom kit I dont think Mark plans to go much further with it.

By the way, Should we just punch his main cat? Their arent any O2 sensors behind it obviously so I cant see why we wouldnt. It has to be restrictive. Keep in mind we live in Indiana where even the cops take of their cats. I sheist you not!

PM Keyser - I'd trust him with my chip tuning...:D

If there's no visual inspection, I wouldn't have an open chamber (i.e. a punched out cat) in my exhaust path.

I don't think the SAFC will interfere with the controller. They both have to have high-impedance inputs to keep from "interfering" with the sensor functions with the pcm. I can't imagine sampling with two high impedance sources will ultimately affect either one.

The CAT issue is not that big a deal. Sticking a high flow cat on solves the problem and won't cause backpressure. All my stuff has run Cats, and leats a main cat.

REally, the stock fuel system with 24's will work with nothing else but it will run poorly. Way too rich. The SAFC is more than sufficient to adjust them in. They are about 25% bigger than 19's so you just need to pull about 20% fuel at idle and gradually decrease it as a function of throttle and rpm.

I wont pretend like im really well versed on how the venom and SAFC work to modify your A/F ratio but I was under the impression they intercept a signal coming from one of the sensors, be it MAP, MAF, or O2, and then modifies it and sends it back to the PCM thus making the PCM think it needs to richen up the A/F in the case of the Venom Kit, and Richen/Lean in the case of the S-AFC. Now if this is indeed how they work, I would think they would interfere with each other.

I would rather you be right tho because just buying the SAFC and tuning exclusivly with that would be a lot easier on us, if it works.

Okay I did some more research and I believe I am correct in how the S-AFC functions. It bascially just goes between the MAF and the PCM and modifies the signal to get the desired A/F ratio. Also it taps into some other sensors but like you said that is only for input and im sure both units can share those.

What I didnt realize was that the venom kit actually wires straight to each one of your injectors and pulses them independant of your PCM to add more fuel. It also taps into some other sensors (O2, Throttle Position, etc..) but again only for input. This kit is a lot sweeter than I thought.

I think that is the way we should go. The S-AFC is only 300 or so and thats probably cheaper than a custom chip. Also I can then sit on the dyno and play with the A/F ratio until we get our max HP.

The only thing left to worry about now is the knock sensor. People were saying it pulls a lot of timing and kills your HP. Is that just causing a problem for boosted guys or does it affect the NA guys also?

Not sure if a S-AFC will be cheaper than a chip. I have a apexi and it worked great for tuning on the dyno but I paid $150 for a dyno tune. Thats $450 for a tune and the device. Both would be optimal. SF will burn you one until your happy for $460. I'm probably going to get one of those very soon to get rid of the MIL's, turn the fans on earlier, and various other things.

Oh by the way don't be pissed at the dyno numbers. I dynoed at 191.2fwhp with port and polished heads and 3L valves. It was heatsoaked horribly bad though.

Chris