Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums Modifications Transaxle My CD4E Shopping Experience...Long (sorry)

Alright, well I have not been able to really find out a whole lot in the last few days, but I have found this bit of info...

Raybestos does make a clutch pack that includes High Energy Kevlar composite Direct & Coast Clutchs. Here's the links to the PDF's containing a small amount of info about them...

Raybestos CD4E Clutch Pack - Eclipse This is the PDF anounancing the release of this kit in their Eclipse line.
Raybestos CD4E High Energy Eclipse Coast Clutch This is the PDF about the Coast Clutch.

Raybestos CD4E High Energy Eclipse Direct Clutch This is the PDF about the Direct Clutch.


Keep in mind that this is only the Direct & Coast clutchs that are made of this material and not the entire pack of clutchs. I would guess that the rest of the clutchs are the basic Tan bread OEM? Well I am now off the find out what exactly the coast and direct clutchs duties these puppies actually perform in the ATX!!

As I said before, I am still sort of new at this ATX stuff, so if anyone knows anymore about these or any other brands of clutchs, bands etc avaliable for the CD4E please post that info here.

To Everyone,

I've stuck this post at the top of the forum because I believe that it has
the potential of becoming a "Bill Of Material" for anyone needing to rebuild a CD4E on their own.

If anyone has done this already and has any information regarding
what are the highest quality components to use, along with their experiences,
please add it to this post.

I will keep it stuck to the top of our forum so that it is here for everyone's future reference.


Thanks Unisys12...

Ok, blushing aside...

I found a great online catalog tonight for the CD4E!! It does not include prices, but it does have a ton of info scattered throughout this thing.

Transtar Industries CD4E Online Catalog

I was able to find that a High Energy (Kevlar composite) Band does exist for the CD4E and can be used across all year models!!! Check it out...

2-4 Band - 2.047 Wide (Replaces 1.653 Wide Band) Hi-Energy 94-Up 85700H YL82-7G477AA

Well sorry guys, no update on my tranny tonight. The shop got a little behind on an SE in front of me, so I can't be mad at them. Now, if it was something other then a tour... well, Hell would come to see the light of day!! No not really...

But I did have a interesting conversation with a few felas about torque convertors and the effects in a high performance situation and would like to share some of the info that was shared there. This is from CatMan, NECO member from Athens, GA on the subject...


A new higher stall torque converter will definitely help in your 1/4 mile times. However, you're failing to address the biggest problem with the CD4E: the drivetrain loss. It's not so much that we have a weak drivetrain that can't handle power. In fact, from what I've heard, a stock CD4E tranny can handle a lot more power than just about anyone is putting out right now. But it's absurd that a stock MTX cougar/contour can dyno at 130-140 fwhp whereas a stock ATX is only around 120. That's the biggest dissapointment I have with the CD4E that Ford uses. The sloppy shifts and shift points can be pretty easily corrected with a custom burned chip. But there's no way of reducing the drivetrain loss without rebuilding the tranny itself to perform more efficiently. The only place a torque converter is going to help you is off the line with your launches. After that, it's not going to do a whole hell of a lot when you're doing a 1/4 mile run. Reducing the drivetrain loss will. I'd much rather get back that 20 or so horsepower that our tranny makes us loose ALL THE TIME than get a better launch at the very beginning of the race. And if you can get both issues taken care of, then you're that much better off.

The only real problem I can foresee with getting a higher stall torque converter (like a 3000 stall converter), is traction. If you get a 3000 stall torque converter, it'll be like having a clutch and revving the car up to 3000 rpms before dropping it. This may cause some serious traction issues at such a high rpm. So if you get a converter that stalls too high, you won't get traction. And you can't launch at lower rpms because the converter won't let out the clutch. If you get one that's too low, you won't get the best launch possible. So if you're going to replace the stock torque converter, be sure and do some research to find out what the best stall would be to avoid traction issues but still get a good launch. This wouldn't be such an issue if there was an LSD for the ATX, but that doesn't look like it's going to happen any time soon. If I had to guess, I'd say somewhere between 2500-3000 would be the best place to start.

The other thing people need to take into consideration is driveablility. A new torqe converter won't necessarily cause any issues directly that I know of, but it'll definitely change the way the car drives. The main problem you'll be running into is gas mileage. You can expect this to go down quite a bit with a higher stall converter, just because you're car will be constantly launching at a higher rpm than normal. So you'll have to go higher in the rpms to get the car moving, which means lower miles per gallon. This kind of mod really isn't for the casual modder that just wants to get a few more horsepower, a better exhaust sound, and maybe knock .1 or .2 of their 1/4 mile time. It's really more for the people that just want to make their car fast.


I was going to try and shorting it a little, but since I am so wordy it all seems useable to me. Take from it what you want and research from there. Just wanted to share some more info.

I case you are wondering, I am staying with the stock stall convertor. Why? Well, I don't drag my car enough to see any gains from a mod that really cost that much. If my car was not a daily driver, well I would do it... maybe! I had made this decision before reading this response from CatMan, but he sure did make me feel better about it. Thats CatMan for sharing your knowledge on this subject.

If you haven't already noticed, my main goal with my rebuilt is the make my CD4E as reliable as possible and make some improvments in the shifting department. This rebuid will not fulfill all these requirments, but a chip will finish it off.

Phil, I don't see why you aren't rebuilding this yourself. It seems to me that you are very knowledgable and can handle a tool. I have never rebuilt a FWD tranny but have rebuilt TH400 and TH350's. There are a couple of tricks, but nothing serious. It's like rebuilding anything else: Pay attention to what you're disassembling and lay out all the parts in the order they come apart. When I think about all the things I have done to cars with nothing more than hand tools (I don't have a compressor and the only electric tools I own are a drill and saw), I am amazed and quite proud. I know, time is always the killer of DIY projects.

Just a thought.

Well thank you very much for that vote of confidence, but I know my current limits. I would love to do it and will one day, but right now, I still have a lot to learn about ATX's and the CD4E specifically.

Keeping things in perspective for me is the fact that I did not a know a single thing about transmissions, in general, until mine went out, Oct.4 of 2002 (my birthday of all days!) and I was shafted by a shop a few weeks later. I was signed up here at CEG for several months before this happened and actually made it a point to never see what was going on in the Transmission Forum. Honestly! These things were greek to me and I liked it that way.

Since that time, I have been on a crash course learning curve with the CD4E and ATX's in general. I have learned a lot from people here and have done a ton of research. I have shared all of the research that I have done, expcept info that had already been covered or whatever. But I feel that I am not ready to tear into a CD4E and be able to build it properly. There are a few special tools that are needed, well actually there is an entire set of Rotunda tools for the CD4E, but some of them you could come up with easy work arounds.

All in all, I am just repecting my own limits. It would be a hell of a lot cheaper, I can say that for sure!!

**Update**

The shop finally got around to my car today. Guess what? They have to pull it! This shop is very detailed in its work and requires documentation of every step taken. If a tranny is still working when it is brought in, they have to have absolute proof that it is justified to actually pull it and tear it down. Well, at the very least, I know that I picked a shop that is maticulas in it's work. I was told this morning that we will, for sure, be able to sit and talk prices and all that jazz Monday.

I hear ya! And good luck!

Hi Unisys,

I saw some inferences to differences in the '98 and earlier versions of the CD4E, and was wondering if you could shed some light on them, as you seem to have researched these quite thoroughly.

1. Are there differences beyond the pump design?

2. If so, what?

3. Are all 98-on ATX's equally strong, or are 98's the best choice?

Thanks for sharing the fruits of your research with the rest of us...

Andrew

Andrew, I really wish I could answer your question with a detailed answer, but I can't. This is one of the subjects that I have researched almost as much as anything else. There is a TSB, 99-1-7; A/T - CD4E Production Changes. If some has a subscription to AllData, well should I beg or something? Another way to get a detail list of all the differences is to get your hands on a Ford CD4E service manual. This manual runs around $70 from Ford, I think, but there are other versions out there for around $40 - $50.

When it comes to differences and changes, there are a ton of differences from it's introduction to the USA in 94 up to now. The easiest way I could tell you to get an idea of what all is different from year to year is to check out the link that I have posted above to the CD4E catalog and print it out. The next time you have nothing to do and can really sit and look through it, you will see that it is almost mind numbing.

Again, I really wish I could just answer your question, but I personally don't have all the nessecary resources needed to do so though. The above link to the catalog is the best resource I currently have.

Had a very interesting conversation going with some of the guys over at fastcougar.com about torque convertors, as mentioned above.

Since some of what I am trying to accomplish in my rebuild is added performance along with stablity, the subject of Torque Convertors just fits right in.

Level 10's convertor page has a pretty good explination of how a TC works and a few of the differences between a stock convertor and a "high performance" convertor.

Why would I want to change out my stock convertor when it seems to be working just fine?

Well that is exactly what I was asking myself during this conversation. "rrncousarmy", a fastcougar.com member, was asking about higher stall speeds for his converter and was checking with several local shops and others to get a basic price of what it would cost to up his stall speed to around 3000. That price was around $500! I found out today, when looking through my manual that the stock stall speed for the Duratec is 2383 - 2805 and 2310 - 2730 for the Ztec! So we are already very close to the 3000 stall speed that most want to be at. Really gives you something to think about the next time that you read that almost all of Level 10's gains are from the TC!!