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Demon,
Both regular and SVT Duratec pistons are cast hypereutectic...at least 2 different articles on the Duratec have mentioned it. SVT has thicker crown and I believe different rings..though I guess it was 3L pistons that were the prob here so SVT parts will not help.


1999 Amazon Green SVT Contour (#554/2760) "People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." -Soren Kierkegaard (as posted by Jato)
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You guys are all wet with the spark plug color thing. The plugs look like any other brand new set of plugs with a few hundred miles on them when you see them in person. The flash makes them look whiter than they are. The brownish plugs you see are actually dark brown and oily where the other plugs are normal. Most of the time I had a rich condition and was setting off the codes for front and rear bank rich condition.
You are entitled to your opinions though I warn you I didn't just fall off the engine turnip truck yesterday, AND I have the parts that you are just seeing medium resolution pictures of. Running lean leaves other telltale marks in the combustion chamber, MOST especially the exhaust valves and the piston domes. None of these other parts show any sign of running lean or detonation.

AS far as the other guys who are swearing up and down about detonation...hey its possible.
However, you can't just yell "detonation" without looking at all the evidence on the parts.
Don't you think its just possible that the pressure was too damn high and the force alone pressing down on the ring was enough to break the ring land? Can you argue and say:
"No its not Possible!" "IT IS detonation!"
I don't think so at this point.

First and foremost you have to understand that I have nothing to gain at all by claiming there is or is not detonation or a lean condition taking place.
My car is still broke! Why would I care to cover my eyes to the truth of the matter when I have to fix it. I gave up all diagnostic evidence to this forum both for its value to others and for YOUR help. Your opinions are important and your help is invaluable to me. I won't just argue blindly, I just came to my own conclusions based on the data.
Yes, a dyno tune is in order anyway no matter what the cause and so is an intercooler.
Forged internals? When I have dyno and A/F evidence that I have my car well tuned and afterwards I'm driving it around and the same thing happens, then I'll believe the stock internals aren't up to the task. Right now as BNOON implies, the fault could have been caused by a poor tune. I'm ok with that and I'll drive on to get it right.
I promise, if it breaks again the same way and I have already had it dyno tuned, then I'll park it and order forged rods and pistons!
I can't afford 6 weeks and $700+ dollars for forged pistons when the stock internals may be just fine. I think that with proper equipment and tune this 3L motor will sustain the 7psi I am going to run for everyday driving and the occasional 10psi sprints I am going to run.

No one is even mentioning that the rods that were supposedly the weakest link have sustained all the pressure that caused pistons to break...whether detonation induced or just high cylinder pressures caused it. Hell if it was detonation induced then you could say the rods are even stronger! I am more comfortable with the stock rods now than I am with the stock pistons. There are others that are proving now that the rods can sustain 8K RPM...hell vortech runs them at 7600.

I think we can look at this incident in a positive light as it is letting us define the limits of the stock hardware and helps other people avoid the pitfalls. I don't need to have the baddest 3L SVT ever, just for now its nice to be first and would be nice to make the most power on the street for a little while, until one of you ups the ante with more goodies!

Thanks all for your input,

Tom



Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760 356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas! See My Mods '05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red '06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black
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Tom it does look like a faulty piston, and for the record my plugs look like that with a white chaulky look to them after I run it and park right away, at idle it richens up and turns them a different color.

I would be cautious though thinking the IC will solve all your problems. The IC obvioulsy cuts back on the chances for detonation but will make MORE power causing even higher cylinder presures.

For the record I have the baddest 3L J/K 3000 miles and counting! When I get to 5000 I'll start thinking its all going to work well together


I offer PnP Heads for all durtec's details at PnPheads.com or jesse@pnpheads.com for details.
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Tom, if you think you can rebuild a hybrid 3L with hand ported heads, hand cc'ed chambers, calculate your true compression ratio, hand build your own turbo system using an untried turbo on an untried engine combination successfully, then street tune it successfully with a custom made Greddy Emanage timing box (with home built inerface and injector harness cables as well), then try to make us believe you know how to read plugs?!?!?! Yeah, right!!!

j/k

If the plugs look fine in person, I tend to trust your judgement. The aftermarket replacement pistons should be fine for your rebuild. As always, we'll expect the full rundown on every major event.


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Originally posted by bnoon:
Tom, if you think you can rebuild a hybrid 3L with hand ported heads, hand cc'ed chambers, calculate your true compression ratio, hand build your own turbo system using an untried turbo on an untried engine combination successfully, then street tune it successfully with a custom made Greddy Emanage timing box (with home built inerface and injector harness cables as well), then try to make us believe you know how to read plugs?!?!?! Yeah, right!!!





ROTFLMFAO!!!

OWN3D!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously, I know you'll get it running. I've got faith, baybee!!


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Some of you folks have the Fast & Furious thinking burned into your head. The only reason to get forged pistons is if you MUST have them.

A quality set of Hypereutectic pistons will garner better performance then a standard set of forged pistons.

Hypers are lighter (accel faster), have less thermal expansion (less parasitic drag), better ring sealing (better efficiency), & are CNC machined (the quality ones, NOT stock!) to make a stronger casting. These all add up to make a better performing part.

Not all hypereutectic pistons are created equal either. Casting technique, silica content, machining, etc all play a part...
Do not compare a mass produced stock unit to a quality aftermarket unit. Now maybe the SVT's pistons were made to better standards considering the small production run; that I could not tell you???


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According to Terry Haines, the duratec pistons were manufactured by Marla who according to him is a reputable parts producer.

Rick


Owner of 00 #1611 Silver (Totalled) 98.5 T-Red SVT #6180 Buckshot77@msn.com Misc 3L parts for sale
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I chuckled hard at this one. For a second I was wondering where you were going with this! I had my eyebrows all furled up and stuff. LOL
Thanks for the vote of confidence.

Guess what I have coming in the mail????????????????

Starts with a 'T' and goes in the transmission. Along with a few other parts that start with an 'S' and end with a 3!

I still haven't order pistons yet, but I am going to do that by tonight or tomorrow. I am waiting for a response before I take the plunge.
If all goes well I could have all the parts by next week and reassemble the engine on the following weekend. Then the week after that to reinstall it in the car.

One more week after that and the intercooler will(better!) be done.

Lets see if I can keep to this schedule.

'monger


Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760 356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas! See My Mods '05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red '06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black
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Originally posted by warmonger:
Guess what I have coming in the mail????????????????

Starts with a 'T' and goes in the transmission. Along with a few other parts that start with an 'S' and end with a 3!





Ok, I got the 'torsen' but WTF is a 'ssthree'??


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Originally posted by chknhwk:

Ok, I got the 'torsen' but WTF is a 'ssthree'??



Think clutch...


2000 SVT #674 13.47 @ 102 - All Motor! It was not broke; Yet I fixed it anyway.
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