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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 85
CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 85 |
I have the 3L hybrid with 3L valves and 24# injectors. I also recieved the Apexi S-AFC. My question is this, Do I need to recal my stock MAF or can I use the Apexi until I get a larger MAF that is already caled for my mods? I really get confused when I read about the Apexi and recaling the MAF  .
98 SE Sport. custom catback, Intrax springs, 3L, 3L valves, APEXi S-AFC, 24# injectors.
Other cars:
72 Challenger 360 motor 727 trans (used for parts)
73 Challenger 340 motor 727 trans 15.60 1/4 with bad miss and clogged fuel filter.
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,732
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,732 |
Originally posted by bnoon:
Originally posted by Russell:
brad, what do you recommend for this:
basic 3L swap, intake, gutted precats, exhaust?
On your ATX??? I'd stick with the 19's. The MTX would be much more forgiving with the larger injectors.
i thought i had 17s ??
and yes, my atx is gonna have a 3L, hopefully soon
Russell
Oval Port 3L Nearly Done
MTX75 w/ Homebrew Zetec FD and Torsen Complete
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,517
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,517 |
Originally posted by bnoon:
Stay with 19's unless you're going to mod the hell out of it from the beginning. FYI, mod the hell out of it to me means full P&P job on the heads, headers, larger valves, etc.
Brad, I never had a chance to sit down and really discuss my project with you this weekend (still had a LOT of driving ahead of me  ), but I was wondering about the injectors even more now that you said this.
I was just going to do the 3.0L swap with the headwork and bigger valves, bigger MAF and TB w/ full exhaust (headers all the way back) and drop in the Greddy Emanage.
Next step would be to install bigger butterflies, chip, dual honed UIM and chip to raise the rev-limiter and 24# or 30# injectors.
It sounds like you're saying I should go ahead and install the 24#ers now? Just to get the thing to run before all this and the vortech??
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,541
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,541 |
Here's the collective word on bigger injectors:
Some report they were fine with 19 pph units, most notably David Z who was putting out some serious power N/A. He did gain improvement by increasing fuel pressure while on a dyno (which tells me that bigger injectors would have helped).
Personally, I maxxed out my 19s on the dyno at ~190 fwhp (and above 6000 RPM), which is what my math told me is in the ballpark of what is to be expected. Of course, I had other problems at the time (most notably excessive and erratic spark timing), so they might have obfuscated ($10 word for you there) what was happening with my A/F ratio, but no amount of adjustment would get my A/F below 13:1 in that range with the 19s.
The only time the 19s could be a problem IMHO is at WOT at the top end of the RPM band - around town driving is well within their capabilities on this motor.
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,621
Redneck Troll
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Redneck Troll
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,621 |
Originally posted by Russell:
i thought i had 17s ??
and yes, my atx is gonna have a 3L, hopefully soon
Yes, you do have 17's stock, but you'd need 19's instead of 24's with your planned combo. If you do enough mods to outgrow the 19's, as proven on the dyno or road test datalogging, then switch to the 24's. Don't even try the 17's as they ran lean on my basic 3L SE hybrid at 4,500 RPM with the stock single pipe SE exhaust and SE UIM in place! Not a good thing!!!
ChickenJohn, you can get by with the SVT's 19's quite fine initially, but I'm sure you will run into the same problem as PA had maxing them out quite early if you're trying to maximize the combination. Watch your injector duty cycle and if it gets into the 90% range, swap them out for better overhead to maintain a good spray pattern. Same as above, datalog everything you can and you'll know what your best combo is. Once you get a few UIM pulls under your belt, you can swap those injectors in under an hour with hand tools, let alone air tools, so it's not a big thing to swap them later.
http://www.bnmotorsports.com
"And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my CEG brothers. And you will know I am the Moderator when I lay my vengeance upon you."
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,732
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,732 |
Originally posted by bnoon:
Originally posted by Russell:
i thought i had 17s ??
and yes, my atx is gonna have a 3L, hopefully soon
Yes, you do have 17's stock, but you'd need 19's instead of 24's with your planned combo. If you do enough mods to outgrow the 19's, as proven on the dyno or road test datalogging, then switch to the 24's. Don't even try the 17's as they ran lean on my basic 3L SE hybrid at 4,500 RPM with the stock single pipe SE exhaust and SE UIM in place! Not a good thing!!!
ChickenJohn, you can get by with the SVT's 19's quite fine initially, but I'm sure you will run into the same problem as PA had maxing them out quite early if you're trying to maximize the combination. Watch your injector duty cycle and if it gets into the 90% range, swap them out for better overhead to maintain a good spray pattern. Same as above, datalog everything you can and you'll know what your best combo is. Once you get a few UIM pulls under your belt, you can swap those injectors in under an hour with hand tools, let alone air tools, so it's not a big thing to swap them later.
being that my goal is reliability over power, im gonna go with 24s
Russell
Oval Port 3L Nearly Done
MTX75 w/ Homebrew Zetec FD and Torsen Complete
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,621
Redneck Troll
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Redneck Troll
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,621 |
Originally posted by Russell:
being that my goal is reliability over power, im gonna go with 24s
Then you've got it backwards... If you're not going for power, you'll only need the 19's...
http://www.bnmotorsports.com
"And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my CEG brothers. And you will know I am the Moderator when I lay my vengeance upon you."
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,732
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,732 |
im still going for power, im just not trying to squeese every bit of power out of it. i plan for all teh absic bolt ons, and i dont wanna have to worry about if the injjectors are big enough
Russell
Oval Port 3L Nearly Done
MTX75 w/ Homebrew Zetec FD and Torsen Complete
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,621
Redneck Troll
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Redneck Troll
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,621 |
To large of injectors and you'll kill gas mileage and driveability. What bolt ons are you going with?
http://www.bnmotorsports.com
"And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my CEG brothers. And you will know I am the Moderator when I lay my vengeance upon you."
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,732
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,732 |
eventually, headers (gutted precats for now), exhaust (stock single exhaust, with a dual made from mandrel bends ASAP) not sure on the rest, maybe nitrous, dunno about that
custom twinturbo setup (i wished)
Russell
Oval Port 3L Nearly Done
MTX75 w/ Homebrew Zetec FD and Torsen Complete
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