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Originally posted by daenku32:
Originally posted by Jeb Hoge:
Besides, I always thought that the word "God" was about the most non-denominational, non-specific name for a deity that there was. It's not Allah, or Yahweh, or Buddha, or whatever...each of those is a specific name for a god.
<stand by for weird associative description> It's like, you've got all these different car owner groups, and each group likes their own car the best, but in the end...don't we all call ourselves car enthusiasts?
You get what I mean.
Yeah, I get it. It's not which god you worship, as long as you worship a god. Because if you don't worship one, you are not one of 'us' patriotic americans.
Is that how we draw the line for Patriotism?
I haven't seen anything in our government that claims that the lack of believing or worshipping a god is unpatriotic. A large segment of society may see it differently, though the government as an institution doesn't.
I've always seen it as paying homage to the founding beliefs and basic principles, not to mention a sideways nod to the reason a group of people fled England so that they could worship as they please.
JaTo
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I am sorry, but I can not defend the position held by many members here that our pledge is referring to any God, when it is not. We broke away from England for a few reasons, one of which was because we didnt want to be a part of the church of England. The U.S. was not founded by people wishing to praish allah, or worship mohammad. Yes, we do grant religious freedom to all people here, but please dont confuse the difference. Just because we were founded by Christians and we have many 'throwbacks' to Christianity, doesnt mean that we try to prevent anyone from woshiping another religion. Furthermore, the words 'under God' were added to the pledge in 1954 by Eisenhower, a Presbyterian. They were not in the original pledge; "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." - Francis Bellamy, Baptist minister. So, while I know this country has freedom for religion, this is not the same as freedom from religion. We were founded by Christians, dont take this very important part of our history away by removing it from the pledge. -Nick
"Moore has also accused the American people of being the stupidest, most naive people on the face of the Earth. And after last weekend, he's got the box office numbers to prove it!"
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I fully understand this. I'm just using dirty legal tactics here in the same way some of the extremists that want it gone have done. Of course it refers to the Judeo-Christian God, but good luck proving beyond a 100% shadow of a doubt since Eisenhower is dead and no one can ask... Let's call it a "living phrase" that may not have initially been meant for all religions, but that it's vague literal nature can encompass the majority of religious belief here in the US now.  Fight fire with fire, I say. Give some of these morons a taste of their own medicine. Hell, if the NAACP and ACLU can pull this type of crap and get some of the most insane doctrine jammed through the legal system, I don't see why the majority of US citizens that have no issue with this phrase can't use the same tactics... 
JaTo
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Originally posted by 99blacksesport:
I am sorry, but I can not defend the position held by many members here that our pledge is referring to any God, when it is not. We broke away from England for a few reasons, one of which was because we didnt want to be a part of the church of England. The U.S. was not founded by people wishing to praish allah, or worship mohammad. Yes, we do grant religious freedom to all people here, but please dont confuse the difference. Just because we were founded by Christians and we have many 'throwbacks' to Christianity, doesnt mean that we try to prevent anyone from woshiping another religion. Furthermore, the words 'under God' were added to the pledge in 1954 by Eisenhower, a Presbyterian. They were not in the original pledge; "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." - Francis Bellamy, Baptist minister. So, while I know this country has freedom for religion, this is not the same as freedom from religion. We were founded by Christians, dont take this very important part of our history away by removing it from the pledge. -Nick
Why would the removal of a phrase, that was never in the original Pledge and which (the Pledge) btw has nothing to do with founding of this country, be rewriting the founding of this nation?
All I want to know, is when will the Congress pass another Pledge that I can recite? Or will I just have to continue using and promoting my version by myself.
Besides, not every founder was a Christian. Some were Deists.
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"Too many OB/GYNs aren't able to practice their love with women all across this country"
--US President George W Bush
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Originally posted by JaTo:
Originally posted by daenku32:
Quote:
The petition is to protect the ability of those who would like to say "GOD"-gasp!
More like BRAINWASH little children into religion before they even know the concept of 'god'.
Does the petititon intend to allow people to substitute or add whatever words they want to the Pledge? If not, then it's not about Freedom.
It's not my god, but it is my country.
Do corporate logos "brainwash" you into buying their products?
If my children were forced everyday to stand up in school and to pledge their allegiance to the golden arches or to the Nike swoosh (or to sit in silent protest) I would consider this insidious brainwashing of the worst kind. And yea, I think this would increase corporate sales.
People can be easily swayed, but the vast majority aren't that flagrantly weak and simple-minded.
42% of Americans believe that Saddam Hussein was reponsible for the 9/11 attacks! I agree that a "vast majority" of Americans might not be simple minded but 42% sounds like a reasonable percentage.
Its the degradation of our educational system and the increasing inabiity of Americans to think critically which allows charlatans like Bush to push through an agenda which will wreak more havoc on this country than a dozen Saddam Husseins.
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b0x @dm1n
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The pledge was removed from my school system years ago!
And Allah/God forbid we instill some patriotism and allegiance in our children!
-Andy
Last edited by Andy W.; 03/28/03 09:09 PM.
Andy W.
The problem with America is stupidity.
I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment
for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety
labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
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Originally posted by Andy W.:
The pledge was removed from my school system years ago!
-Andy
Wow, I have never heard of anyone doing that.
Can anyone tell me why schools have kids pledging allegiance to a flag anyway? I would have no problem pledging alleging to our country or to its ideals. If I had to choose between being loyal to our flag or to our country (there is a difference) I would choose our country and I would want my children to do the same.
Why Not:
I Pledge Allegiance To the United States of America
And to the Ideals for Which it Stands
One Nation
Indivisible
With Liberty and Justice for All
Would anyone object to that?
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Because that phrase is a throwback to the mindset of the founders of this country. Like it has been said, what is wrong with promoting patriotism, and religion in schools? Seems to me it would only do good, except in the minds of the extremists who think anything dealing with religion is wrong... -Nick
"Moore has also accused the American people of being the stupidest, most naive people on the face of the Earth. And after last weekend, he's got the box office numbers to prove it!"
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i'm not sure but what the hell does "god" have to do with patriotism? i can think of one person on my mothers side who believes in your "god" the rest are all athiests or pagans, and guess what we are all very patriotic in fact three of them are in the war right now, two have been in previous wars. also imo as a parent it comes down to not wanting my daughter to believe in fairy tales forever, lets face it the bible and its testaments are nothing more than hebrew fairy tales dreamt up to "put the kids to sleep"(as it still does) and over many thousands of years people came to believe as true, just think maybe in 2000 years your distant relatives could be praying to Harry Potter!!!!
"Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but STUPID lasts forever."-Aristophanes.
--93 pgt,headers,intake,borla=14.9 1/4mile
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Hi all...
The title got me reading and the twist kept me here. I am a History Major with a minor in PollySci. I will have a job real quick after I finish up, ha.
I suggest that anyone who doubts that this country was founded by WASPs, who totally revered and exalted God, a Christian God, read the very first prayer by our founding fathers...
"Oh Lord our heavenly Father, high and mighty King of kings, and Lord of lords, who dost from Thy throne behold all the dwellers on earth and reignest with power supreme control over all the kingdoms, empires, and governments, look down in mercy, we beseech Thee, on these our American states..." First American Congress Sept. 7 1774.
Any alteration to the Pledge of Allegiance, is due to the fact that it should've originally been there. It is not prostilityzing indoctrination of Christianity. It is simply recognizing that this country has always given God his props, and through Him alone have we trusted. It is also ironic that the Pledge was written by a Socialist Christian, but that is just some Jeopardy trivia.
I am all for reciting the Pledge with "under God", and damn sure support teacher led prayer to the only true God, Jesus Christ, His Father, and the Holy Spirit. It is the only thing that some of these teachers have hope in, as socialist politicians have broadened the scope of educators into parents and police. If the educators are to act as the parents they should bring OUR children up in the ways of the Lord. If you don't like it, have our LEGISLATORS make a law prohibiting it. Don't entrust it to a swollen bureaucratic judicial system that has no accountability to the people of our great representative republic!!
The thing that makes me madder than hell is the fact that we are just content to be stupid sheep. Don't listen to the things you are told by athiestic, marxist professors in our universities, unless of course they are in line with the facts. Opinions are like, you know, and everyone has them and they all stink. Facts are irreputable. MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THE FACTS BEFORE YOU SPEAK. As my father told me, "it is better to keep your mouth shut and have people assume you are an idiot, then to open it and confirm all suspicion."
GOD bless America, and may He bless our troops, and protect all those who are innocent here and abroad. For those who are guilty; may God's wrath and justice be upon you.
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