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Originally posted by bnoon:
O.K.... maybe one thing, but his wife aside, there's nothing stopping him...
Aha! This is what I like to call the "Anti-mod." I too suffer from this. 
95 SE Modded - Gone
98 E0 Black SVT - Gone
98 se sport - Broken
00 T-Red SVT - Nice
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Posts: 976
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OP
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Originally posted by 95Mike:
Originally posted by bnoon:
O.K.... maybe one thing, but his wife aside, there's nothing stopping him...
Aha! This is what I like to call the "Anti-mod." I too suffer from this.
LOL! I don't know where Brad came up with this, it was her that actually said I HAVE TO FINISH this project. About 3 weeks ago I was about to rip the SC off, and say the hell with the tune and the expense of shipping, etc. Glad I didn't do that now!
I offer PnP Heads for all durtec's details at PnPheads.com or jesse@pnpheads.com for details.
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Joined: Aug 2001
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Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
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Originally posted by KnuKonceptz:
...
As for the SHOshop 3L, they have one car doing those numbers (Vadim's) I have not seen another SHOShop car put out those kind of numbers regardless of gas octane.
DavidZ's car was done with the ShoShop. He had the special custom cams and his car has even HIGHER numbers than the ShoShop without any aftermarket fuel tuning devices. It was basically with the stock fuel system in place. If you took Davids car and played with the Air/Fuel tuning I think you could reach the 250 wHP mark. Add to it a higher redline and adjusting the timing and adjustible cam gears and that motor could match the average 2.5L SC.
I already stated my point and my impressions of the car's numbers...Damn Good considering the intent AND using a stock redline. However I have to give into logic and reasoning and support a true statement.
warmonger
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810
Hard-core CEG'er
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Originally posted by bnoon:
Roz, there has been no name calling, no unbacked statements made, nor any openly harmful threats made. Nobody needs to grow up here or heed any of their own advice. It's a technical argument going on here, nothing else. Demon didn't make any insulting statements in his opening remarks, just wrong ones. 
For one, knowing that Po Jay claims to mix racing gas in with high octane pump gas shows that he's avoiding a dangerous ping like the plague... because he's not on a safe tune like Jesse is.
Either that or he's a big Chicken!!! 
j/k
Roz. I see you respect DemonSVT, but Bnoon is right. AND, Demon can explain himself further if he sees the need. He's very good with words!  So are you at interpreting the mood; so it seems. I'm not critizing since its good to have someone mediate once in a while though it may not be necessary now. Just offering a hint. 
warmonger
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black
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Joined: Mar 2002
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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DavidZ's car was done in Davids driveway IIRC. He can answer for sure but I don't think Sho Shop ever touched his engine.
97 Contour SE MTX
K&N 3530, UR UDP, 19# Injectors, mystery mod, FMS wires, Fordchip.com chip, SVT: TB, Flywheel, clutch, exhaust
04 Grand Caravan SXT
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,279
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Originally posted by warmonger:
Originally posted by KnuKonceptz:
...
As for the SHOshop 3L, they have one car doing those numbers (Vadim's) I have not seen another SHOShop car put out those kind of numbers regardless of gas octane.
DavidZ's car was done with the ShoShop. He had the special custom cams and his car has even HIGHER numbers than the ShoShop without any aftermarket fuel tuning devices. It was basically with the stock fuel system in place. If you took Davids car and played with the Air/Fuel tuning I think you could reach the 250 wHP mark. Add to it a higher redline and adjusting the timing and adjustible cam gears and that motor could match the average 2.5L SC.
I already stated my point and my impressions of the car's numbers...Damn Good considering the intent AND using a stock redline. However I have to give into logic and reasoning and support a true statement.
warmonger
I was trying post this earlier, but my modem crashed. Anyway, 250FWHP is possible N/A but will require one off cams and other high dollar workings that would end up costing more then a SC install, half of CEG and FC.org would never consider spending the kind of cash to get that N/A output. Also I am pretty sure Kinger is not using the 2.5L heads, which the 3L's dyno'ing in the low 200's have used. As I said earlier, there have been only two N/A 3L's to dyno over 220hp; Vadim's and DavidZ, both were extensive and probably on the wild side of tuning.
Regarding what I said earlier about CFM and the 3L; I should have reworded that statement. I guess the best way to get my point across is that the CFM to engine (displacement) ratio (if there is such a term) when comparing the stock SC install on a 2.5, you would have to go to the next smaller pulley on the SC to get the same ratio with the 3L. Now since the motor is 20% larger does the pulley he has put out 20% more CFM??? compared to the stock SC pulley.... Anyone, anyone, Bueller.....lol . Point being is that had he gone with the smallest pulley he would be moving the same CFM to displacement ratio as a 2.5L with the medium pulley (the one he is using now with a 3L)
This is just something I am tossing out there, I could be way off, but I do not know any of the CFM ratings for the SC and its pulleys.
Previous Owner of 00 SVT Contour #1077/2150
95 Contour SE '01 3L 
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I don't know what else I can say outside of all the info & data I have supporting "my opinion" The "Ave S/C 2.5" numbers are 3 car's "regular" dynos averaged together. No special tuning. Some easily visible proof of the that is that "not very linear" power curve the average shows. However even using that against the (safety tuned) 3L dyno (BTW my original commments were made "before" he mentioned that safety part) and using the more realistic powerband of 4000rpm to 7000rpm... Jesse's car makes an "average" of +3.8% HP & +10.9% TQ for an engine 20% larger. My whole point was and is that IMO I expected his average power numbers to be better. Especially the HP curve. IMO... Also something I will add is after I took the time to actually plot out all his numbers in this chart and the subsequent graph plotting verses the other's curves (numbers are one thing but actually seeing the curves compared to one another helps a lot) I was quite impressed with how smooth and linear the tuning job was. ,.;..! (making up for that long sentence  )
2000 SVT #674
13.47 @ 102 - All Motor!
It was not broke; Yet I fixed it anyway.
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 97
CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 97 |
Quote:
DavidZ's car was done in Davids driveway IIRC. He can answer for sure but I don't think Sho Shop ever touched his engine.
Literally
Ooops wrong button! 
For the record:
My car wasn't tuned, it made 240whp right out of the box. After I had put the car back together I was out of a job, so the car was put on the back burner. Thas why it used a completely stock fuel system and ecu. Other wise I would have tuned it and possibly would have been somewhere between 250-260whp.
IMHO those numbers look weak, you should crank that puppy up and see what it really can do!
Last edited by David Z; 03/27/03 06:07 AM.
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,621
Redneck Troll
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Redneck Troll
Joined: Jun 2000
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Originally posted by David Z:
My car wasn't tuned, it made 240whp right out of the box. After I had put the car back together I was out of a job, so the car was put on the back burner. Thas why it used a completely stock fuel system and ecu. Other wise I would have tuned it and possibly would have been somewhere between 250-260whp.
IMHO those numbers look weak, you should crank that puppy up and see what it really can do!
I have saved emails or posts saying that you had an AFPR on your car David. I.E. not stock fuel system... I swear that you said you were tuned by Sho Shop's Vadim... Hummmmmm, I'm going to have to dig through some stuff... 
Also, they did crank that puppy up to know it's limits. 302HP and 239 TQ IIRC. 
http://www.bnmotorsports.com
"And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my CEG brothers. And you will know I am the Moderator when I lay my vengeance upon you."
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Joined: Aug 2001
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Hard-core CEG'er
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I remember David saying that the fuel system was stock but while on the dyno they tried to use an AFPR. It wasn't left on. I'm sure he will clear it up.
Tom
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black
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