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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 585
Veteran CEG\'er
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Veteran CEG\'er
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Posts: 585 |
Of course, everything I've been posting here is geared towards the Ford CDW27 chassis.
If someone asked me what they should do to make their FOX Mustang handle better for about 100$, I sure wouldn't recommend a rear sway bar!  Valid points nonetheless, those discussions don't cross over between platforms.
Quote:
Even if the brace only makes the car feel more sturdy in the tight turns, that can make you drive the turn faster. It's up to you to decide whether or not that's worth the money.
What I'm saying is that there's little to no way you can feel a front strut bar on the CDW27 chassis, especially not as a first mod! There are other weak points that should be adressed first to bring the handling up to another level.
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,399
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,399 |
I agreed with you in a earlier post on the front brace. If anything, the rust (being a former 300zx owner makes me extremely nervous about the stuff) from drilling holes in your strut towers would make the car weaker! 
98 Silver Frost SVT
97 BMW 540I Sport, six speed
"Blue is for sky, black is for soil, and white is for simplicity, purity and hope for the future"
"A coveted car should never stunt your life, but should make it more rich and interesting."
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 339
CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 339 |
I've done all my suspension upgrades in stages. First were the Koni/Eibach combo and that took handling to another level all together.
Then went in the Aussie bar (big rear SWAY bar) and that helped turn in tremendously and kept the car flatter thru the corners.
SHOShop rear strut tower bar was next. I tried using the stock hardware (self tapping screws) but that was pretty pointless as they pulled right out after I went thru a few bumps less than 1/4 mile down the road. I then had a buddy weld the bar in to the rear shock towers. Since then, you can feel the rear end no longer has a vague, spongy feel thru high speed, high g-corners (clover leaf off ramps). It used to feel like the rear end was loading up and releasing multiple times thru the corner which made finding the "limit" and balancing on it tough to do. Now the rear end just feels more planted thru that type of corner and it's become more predictable. I don't think that I would notice this difference if I didn't have the Koni/Eibach/Aussie bar combo though.
I'm not exactly psyched with any of the front STB's on the market right now and I'm not sure what kind of need a street driven CDW-27 has for them. With a set of VERY sticky tires you may notice a difference, but I bet you're going to feel the front a-arm bushings flopping around mid corner before you feel the front of the chassis flex.
As Pascal mentioned there are LOTS of areas that need to be addressed before you go bolting on all this re-inforcement. Make sure all the basic stuff (suspension bushings, alignment, tires) is covered before you start trying to improve the system.
Every car is different. FYI on my 84' Jetta the upper and lower front STB's were a HUGE change for the better (esp. with some STICKY tires ) while the rear STB barely made an improvment.
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 383
CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 383 |
Originally posted by Pascal:
And it's very much appreciated. 
More info is better, I like to see that I'm not the only one "on a mission" to spread knowledge.
I got your back. I damn near got driven off another forum because I couldn't take the [censored] anymore and posted a question "Why does everyone say STB's reduce BODY ROLL" and I got flamed 15 ways from Sunday. (BTW no offense to anyone but I spoke too soon when I said I hadn't seen that ignorance here). Granted I threw the flames right back and added salt for extra venom so that didn't help, but man I was called every name in the book for being so stupid not to be able to see how they wouldn't work because it's OBVIOUS that tying the strut towers together is beneficial. The way these people rationalized it you'd think the fenders were flapping in the breeze, but no, I was an IDIOT (a goddamned [censored] monkey-humping no-good cocksucking BASTARD of an idiot) for even suggesting they were cracked out of their skulls.
Never mind the braces in question were not triangulated. Never mind the car in question's front strut towers are damn near integral to the cowl, even closer than these cars so there's barely any leverage. Never mind that cornering forces are in many cases trying to pull the tops of the strut towers apart (surprise!). NEVER MIND that if they DO in fact increase cornering traction then they must also INCREASE body roll, because body roll is a function of lateral traction! All things being equal, if you increase cornering traction, you increase body roll. But no. These people seemed to think that the car body was hinged along the side of the car.  Boy, talk about making people's heads smoke. 
I ratted the [censored] out to a forum full of real suspension masters and lured a couple of them there to get their pants burned off. I managed to get that notion killed for the most part but it still crops up like whack-a-mole.
And I got a hammer. Keep up the fight. And don't let anyone try to tell you drilled rotors work better than solid ones
Pacific Green '96 Contour LX V6
â??98 GTP, light mods, 14.66/94
Calypso Green '92 Mustang LX coupe, 13.56/101
Crown Autocross Club 1999 Street Tire Champion, 2000/2001/2002 Street Modified Champion
KCR SCCA 2002 Solo II Street Modified Champion
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 96
CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 96 |
You have issues few issues to deal with.....
99 SVT (Black) # 2642 of 2760
So Many Mods...So Little Time!!
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,602
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,602 |
Originally posted by Pascal:
Originally posted by ejstefl:
So what would be at the top of the list?
A good spring and strut combo. Single most significant upgrade you can do.
Exactly!
2000 SVT #674
13.47 @ 102 - All Motor!
It was not broke; Yet I fixed it anyway.
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 585
Veteran CEG\'er
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Veteran CEG\'er
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 585 |
MFE, I see where you're coming from. Sounds like an interesting challenge over there, so I'm not even gonna ask where it's at. This is one of the reasons I like this site. There's not so many kids, there's not so much hype, there's not a bazillion dollars worth of aftermarket parts getting bought and sold every day... No problems with branding either as a lot of the stuff is custom / homebrew, or downright exclusive to one mfg. Bicycle019: You described very well the performance improvement that a rear bar will bring to the car, assuming one has the requisite spring/struts upgrades installed prior. The chassis gains a sure-footedness that allows you to drive it on the razor's edge with more confidence. Anyone who's seen my rear strut bar setup knows I put my money where my mouth is.
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 383
CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 383 |
Originally posted by mikey:
You have issues few issues to deal with.....
Yep. I can't stand seeing people get misled. Is that a problem for you?
Pacific Green '96 Contour LX V6
â??98 GTP, light mods, 14.66/94
Calypso Green '92 Mustang LX coupe, 13.56/101
Crown Autocross Club 1999 Street Tire Champion, 2000/2001/2002 Street Modified Champion
KCR SCCA 2002 Solo II Street Modified Champion
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 383
CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 383 |
Originally posted by Pascal:
This is one of the reasons I like this site. There's not so many kids
Truth be told, most of the guys slinging mud were middle aged! The kids are full of bluster but will usually STFU once they realize they're wrong. Not these guys.
Pacific Green '96 Contour LX V6
â??98 GTP, light mods, 14.66/94
Calypso Green '92 Mustang LX coupe, 13.56/101
Crown Autocross Club 1999 Street Tire Champion, 2000/2001/2002 Street Modified Champion
KCR SCCA 2002 Solo II Street Modified Champion
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,037
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Posts: 3,037 |
So here's my loaded question. If you've GOT one, should you toss it? I mean, I traded a paintgun for mine, and I was cool from the start with Pete getting the better end of the deal ( ), and it seemed to me (I do understand placebo effect) that my 95's turning response improved a bit, as well as torsional effects on the body at the threshold from the street to my office parking lot (I cross it at an angle, so each wheel sequentially hits the bump). Is it unequivocally a waste?
"Think of it, if you like, as a librarian with a G-string under the tweed." Clarkson on the Mondeo.
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