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Quote:
After reading all the posts in this forum I have but one question to ask. What is America's stand on China. They continue to hold bombing tests as the rest of the world argues about disarming Iraq. They have recently backed out of a disarming treaty yet no world uproar. Ah but if China was a world leader in crude oil production I think it would be a different story.
To be put it simply because China isn't a significant threat.
Well, they are "significant", but their threats are not. They haven't made significant threats against the US in some time, and are ever-so-slowly removing traces of communism from their government and becoming a free-market capitalist society.
We can't go around dis-arming every nation, especially ones as big and powerful as China is. Nor can we risk pissing them off too terribly much -- By some estimates, within 25 years the economies of India and China will outpace those of the EU and Russia and within 50 years their economies can outpace the rest of the world combined.
There is little doubt that China will become a true Superpower (unlike what the USSR was) in the future. It's better to start normalizing relations now before they have more leverage than you do.
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Originally posted by Rabbit:
Look at the great American diplomacy in Turkey .... they tried to buy the country for the use of bases. "Economic Aid" which is to be withdrawn if they do not co-operate.
I guess they had better get with the program and fast, then.
Originally posted by Rabbit:
September 11th killed two of my friends, and my brother too. I DO NOT want this damned Iraq war. This has nothing to do with 9/11. If you really believe it does then you are just plain ignorant...and a STUPID CRETIN to boot.
No. It's about finally doing the right thing this time around, removing a potential arms-broker/financier/banker/safe house provider to terrorists that share the same hatred towards the West, and hopefully thereby preventing another 9/11-like event, or at least reducing the likelihood and scale of one sometime soon.
Originally posted by Rabbit:
Damn it look at the FACTS, not the crap on the TV.
As for WWII .... the French, tell me about the French actions in Maginot, and their pre-war defences....I bet you can't.
Base your accusations on what !!!!
What pre-war defences? Churchill just about had a coniption due to the total lack of proper and thought-out defences that protected France from the German Blitzkreig.
Originally posted by Rabbit:
As for spineless .... how many years did the US cower in neutrality ????
There's a difference between the concept of isolationism and neutrality. Recovering from an economic crisis the scale and scope of the Great Depression had a LOT to do with our withdrawal from the global arena, though there were other circumstances as well. I suggest picking those history books back up and read 'em again...
Originally posted by Rabbit:
Yes, you did debate it for many years.....cowardice maybe ??
That's the old US cowardice for you, they didn't join the war until they knew who was winning. Lucky it was the allies.
If you were to actually read about the US history during and prior to WWII you would find out that they were considering joining Hitler.
Oh wait, you won't find that in books printed in the US !! That's too much of a "no, no" to print. Check out the European history.
What ORIFACE are you PULLING this CRAP out of!? There were US businesses that did have ties to german industry and a number of corporations did supply and sell goods to Nazi Germany right up to and into the war. Political support from the US government and the US population in large? Um, Hell NO doesn't even begin to adress this stupidity.
Show me sources and authors behind this idea so I can read up on this one (Mad Magazine and anything by Dr. Seuss doesn't count). I've read a number of translated texts on WWII from French, Spanish and Russian writers, too (usually works that related to specific battles, concepts, etc., but a few general "broad brush" overviews of the war) so I'm calling total bullsh!t on this one until I see otherwise. IBM selling a couple of typewriters and counting machines to the Nazi's doesn't qualify as support, nor does Charles Lindburg's fascination with Hitler's air force and his manufacturing vision, either. Give me something solid. I'm not a history professor on the war by any means, but I've read VOLUMES of material over WWII and this one stinks BAD.
Oh, the US entered the war against Germany on December 11, 1941, as they declared war against us first on that morning. At this time, there was NO clear indication of who would be victorious, though given Germany's swift and brutal campaigns against all that stood against her, one could have made a case that Germany looked like the horse to bet on. You're totally full of sh!t on this one, pal.
Originally posted by Rabbit:
It is NOT all about the oil. There's revenge too.
Little Bush wants revenge for happened to his daddy too.
Then don't forget that not only will the US control Iraq's oil, but US contractors will be getting all the jobs there.
This is not about justice, or disarming...that is a scapegoat.
If it were about disarming and justice, then I would be for it. It is not however, the right of the US to invade a country for oil and to forcefully change that countrys rule.
US oil companies would benefit from a partnership with a new democratic Iraq; there's no denying it. However, if you actually think oil interests and revenge are the main reasons for this country to spend billions on a short limited-campaign war, which will actually do MORE harm to our current economic situation, you're mental.
We've got a number of allies that have mulled military action and the reasons behind it; many have come to a point of agreement that if certain provisions aren't met by Iraq, they will be getting a swift pummeling. So, you're telling me they are in this for revenge and oil as well? I mean, since it's ALL about oil and revenge. I'm sure that's going to change the tax structure that a number of our European allies have in place on oil and oil products... 
You, sir, are an  . Please don't try to rewrite history just because you don't like the facts at hand...
JaTo
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Originally posted by sigma:
Quote:
After reading all the posts in this forum I have but one question to ask. What is America's stand on China. They continue to hold bombing tests as the rest of the world argues about disarming Iraq. They have recently backed out of a disarming treaty yet no world uproar. Ah but if China was a world leader in crude oil production I think it would be a different story.
To be put it simply because China isn't a significant threat.
Well, they are "significant", but their threats are not. They haven't made significant threats against the US in some time, and are ever-so-slowly removing traces of communism from their government and becoming a free-market capitalist society.
We can't go around dis-arming every nation, especially ones as big and powerful as China is. Nor can we risk pissing them off too terribly much -- By some estimates, within 25 years the economies of India and China will outpace those of the EU and Russia and within 50 years their economies can outpace the rest of the world combined.
There is little doubt that China will become a true Superpower (unlike what the USSR was) in the future. It's better to start normalizing relations now before they have more leverage than you do.
Very good overview. China and the US are still two VERY big bears eyeing each other with suspicion and doubt, but we are trying to find and secure common ground between us. It also helps that some of China's leadership is becoming somewhat more open to democratic thought and goals.
We've still a ways to go, as China dumps a rather large number of weapons and technology into countries that we don't necessairily care for and have serious concerns about...
JaTo
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Originally posted by mikey boy:
it is scary as to how people forget so quickly what saddam has done. well to help you remember...
this is a couple of the kurds that saddam used chemical agents on in 1991. the mother and child running to escape the gas fell and died still clutching one another. yeah maybe your correct war isnt right. maybe saddam has changed his ways  people cant remember what happened 10 years ago how can we expect anyone to remember what happened 50 years ago? they should remember so that the picture isnt of a mother and child in france. 
I blame the US government for this just as much as I blame Saddam. The US pushed the kurds to revolt against Saddam's regime with the promise that they will be supported to bring Saddam down. The minute the US got what they wanted "Kuwati oil" they forgot about their promise and left that mad man in power. I guess the mad man had to set an example to the rest of the Iraqis and 100s of thousands paid for it. If the promise wasn't made and the US didn't go back on their promise this could've been avoided.
You can say that you expect something like this to be said from a Canadian but that is the truth that the Americans try not to speak off.
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Originally posted by JaTo:
It's about finally doing the right thing this time around, removing a potential arms-broker/financier/banker/safe house provider to terrorists that share the same hatred towards the West, and hopefully thereby preventing another 9/11-like event, or at least reducing the likelihood and scale of one sometime soon.
still havent seen any proof that iraq/saddam has any ties to terrorism.
now officially a troll, i guess. used to have a black 96 SE, until it broke down one too many times.
now I'm hunting for a motorycle.
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Originally posted by ETayrien:
Originally posted by JaTo:
It's about finally doing the right thing this time around, removing a potential arms-broker/financier/banker/safe house provider to terrorists that share the same hatred towards the West, and hopefully thereby preventing another 9/11-like event, or at least reducing the likelihood and scale of one sometime soon.
still havent seen any proof that iraq/saddam has any ties to terrorism.
Nor have I seen any proof that Sadaam is anti-terrorist nor is he fully compliant with previous UN resolutions.
TB
"Seems like our society is more interested in turning each successive generation into cookie-cutter wankers than anything else." -- Jato 8/24/2004
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how are you supposed to prove that youre antiterrorist? go on TV and say "i dont support terrorism?" even if he did, no one would believe him.
as far as UN resolutions, what country WOULD disarm if told to? i cant think of any.
now officially a troll, i guess. used to have a black 96 SE, until it broke down one too many times.
now I'm hunting for a motorycle.
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Originally posted by todras:
Located 3/4 of a mile north of the town of St. Avold (Moselle), France on Highway N-33.
This memorial is one of nine in France. 10,489 Americans are buried here. Each of them lost their lives while fighting to liberate France in WWII.
This shouldn't make you Hate anyone. The French have been our allies long before WWII. That was a time when they needed us and if we were being attacked by another country I believe the French would help us.
Now my American Military pride says that as powerful as we are if we needed help there would be some bad [censored] going on!
There is enough hate going around, lets not hate people because they don't see it our way or don't want to start a war.
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I think you start to demonstrate you are anti-terrorist by not praising the terrorists.
You do know that Sadaam is providing assistance to the families of Palestinian Bombers peep this Quote:
Meanwhile, Saddam is working hard to undercut international support for a U.S. attack on him by deploying his diplomatic weapons. His offer of $25,000 to the family of every suicide bomber and every Palestinian family made homeless by the Israeli assault on the Jenin Refugee Camp has won wide admiration at home and in the larger Arab world. He has burnished his reputation as the one Arab leader who says no to Washington and stands up against Israel.
I found this here http://www.time.com/time/classroom/glenfall2002/pg15.html , I don't think you can say Time is biased in a pro-Bush fashion.
Seems pretty clear to me that he is pro-terror, paying the families of Palestinian Suicide Bombers.
TB
"Seems like our society is more interested in turning each successive generation into cookie-cutter wankers than anything else." -- Jato 8/24/2004
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Originally posted by ETayrien:
Originally posted by JaTo:
It's about finally doing the right thing this time around, removing a potential arms-broker/financier/banker/safe house provider to terrorists that share the same hatred towards the West, and hopefully thereby preventing another 9/11-like event, or at least reducing the likelihood and scale of one sometime soon.
still havent seen any proof that iraq/saddam has any ties to terrorism.
There have been Eqyptian and Syrian terrorist that have resided and that still reside in Iraq. Let's not forget that Saddamm Hussein pays something along the lines of $25,000 to the family of Palestinians that carry out suicide bombings...
Nope. No ties to terrorism there.
Abu Musab Zarqawi, who is a known Jordanian born terrorist received medical treatment in Baghdad last year as well.
I don't know about you, but I'm beginning to see a trail here...
JaTo
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