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that alot of KKK and skinhead groups use the Confederate flag as their symbol. It's sad, but they do. 
And, the last I saw these groups also use the Christian flag as a symbol. Does this make all Christians racist? Of course not.
Ken
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Originally posted by bkent:
Affirmative Action is a blatantly racist policy, giving benefit to one segment of the population based solely on their race. However, according to the media and masses, racism can only travel in one direction. Racism is only perceived as wrong when it is White treatment of any other group, never asian treatment of white, or asian treatment of black, or vice versa. If the goal of the NAACP were true equality then they would fight to abolish affirmative action.
100% false, it is not a racist policy whatsoever. As to whether or not it should still exist today, that can be debated, but it is undeniable that there was a time when it was needed. As the civil rights movement made progress in breaking down barriers for blacks, there was no legislation stating that whites had to hire blacks. Affirmative Action was originally intended as a way to insure that QUALIFIED blacks got the same opportunities as whites. It was not about less qualified blacks getting jobs over whites. Now obviously there are going to be issues with an EQUALLY qualified white person losing a job offer to a black person because of skin color, but be glad that you as a white person have always had a free and fair opportunity, something that my ancestors as blacks did not get.
BTW, Northern White folks hate the confederate flag and ignorant southerners just as much as blacks!
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Did you watch that news special on (I think) the University of Michigan. The university currently considers race as one of many factors, including grades, in-state residency and alumni relationships, when weighing an application. However, a professor got a write up of how admissions "weighs" these factors. Out of a possible score of 100, race accounted for 25 points, while grades/test scores was 10. Affirmative action was a means to an end. The goal was correct, diversity in the workplace, colleges, etc, but the means was way off base. We are going to correct racism with more racism? Two wrongs don't make a right. Quote:
Affirmative Action was originally intended as a way to insure that QUALIFIED blacks got the same opportunities as whites. It was not about less qualified blacks getting jobs over whites. Now obviously there are going to be issues with an EQUALLY qualified white person losing a job offer to a black person because of skin color, but be glad that you as a white person have always had a free and fair opportunity, something that my ancestors as blacks did not get.
Yes intentions and practice took two different paths. My point is take the most qualified person regardless of race, which is not happening. You spelled out what affimative action was intended to be, not what it is.
In practice many times less qualified people are admitted into schools, or get jobs over more qualified people solely based on race, which is racism, plain and simple. We've come full circle from the racism of the 60s, where a less qualified white guy would be hired becuase he was white. Now a less qualified minority is hired because the boss (whatever race he is) has to meet a certain level of diversity. Or the university admits a less qualified applicant, so it can write how diverse it is in it's admissions pamphlet.
Is diversity a good goal, yes.
Was affirmative action intended to achieve said goal, yes.
In practice is it wrong, yes.
I'm not against the concept of diversity, I'm against instituing a racist policy to achieve equality. Hire or admit soley based on qualifications, Ignore Race
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I personally hate seing the confederate flag being flown or on cars or anything else. It serves as a reminder of those things from the past. How many times did I have to see the KKK flying the flag high during a lynching or beating or whatever? It has come to unfortunately symbolize hatred and this didn't happen over night.
I think unless some of you had an opportunity to experience any of this, it will be hard for you to understand. To have parents, grand-parents, great grand-parents discriminated against simply for the color of their skin. Unable to get jobs to support their families although they were more than qualified for the position. You couldn't afford to send your children to college or the colleges of choice simply because they didn't accept black students. Don't you think that may have had some kind ripple effect? Things have certainly gotten better in 2003, no doubt but to say it's racist and serves only one group of people is far off base. Whether it's still needed today is debatable but there still is a large disparity in corporate America when it comes to minorities. Even more so in the upper ranks.
We as blacks didn't have an identity when it came to this country. We were a lower class thought of as dumb and ignorant. You turn on the radio and TV and our voices and faces weren't there. We had no one to look up to, no role models, etc. That's one of the reasons why there is a BET. I could go on and on, but I think unless you felt it, have been through it or had loved ones struggle with it, it'll be hard for you to understand.
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Originally posted by JaTo:
Anyone that's read more than a pop-up book on the Civil War should know that state's rights was the MAIN cause behind it. The bickering back and forth between many of the Southern States and the Federal Government at that time was something that spanned DECADES before the start of the war. Slavery was a polarizing issue between a number of states and later on the the two governments, yes, but not the main one, though it's the one that gets the most press in middle and high-school texts, due to it's simplicity in representation and explaination of the events that occured around that time. As usual, there are TONS of details that get left out that otherwise would give a more complete picture of what the Civil War was REALLY about, and it didn't revolve around slavery. Period.
If slavery wasn't in the US during that time would there have been a civil war? I don't think so. They would've found another way of solving the problem other than war.
Of course the argument on states rights started way before the war came to play, but the argument on rights was directly/indirectly about the southern states rights to use a different set of laws towards non-whites (slavery), which protected slave labor because it was their (the southern) way of life and their economy depended on it.
That conflict over states rights dates back to the argument over the Negro Seaman's Act which SC was using to bar black controlled ships from coming to port (or enslaving them if they did), in addition the Coasting Act was an issue because some states weren't recognizing the fed government's power to grant port access to any ship with the fed permit. Which further raised tensions about fed regulating commerce. All of this was tied to interstate commerce....which was one of the main points the fed government felt they could regulate. The south feared that if the fed could reguwere able to regulate this the south feared that they would be able to end slavery.
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Quote:
Hire or admit soley based on qualifications, Ignore Race
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How do you know that the U of M is admitting less than qualified minorities? Are we just assuming this because of how the point system is supposedly rated? I'm not saying this doesn't happen but why do we make the assumption that it does? Also, why does a hiring manager have to hire a minority who is less qualified? I think that's total bull and is continually used as an excuse. There are so many colleges and universities that are gradutaing highly qualifed capable minorities. To say you just go and hire someone simply because he's black, hispanic or whatever to meet a level of diversity is utterly ridiculous. I'm not saying it isn't happening but that it's not an excuse. You're not looking hard enough is more like the excuse. We're out there.
We were discriminated against in such greater numbers that it doesn't even compare to what's going on today. The workforce and college population is probably 80% white. If I could walk around my company and many others and see minorities in positions of authority (or just see some of us period), etc then maybe I would feel a little bit differently about the subject but I don't. It's the same ole thing no matter where I go. We're constantly struggling and fighting to get that position. We have to work twice as hard to get recongnized and get half the chances.
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The story was of a white girl trying to get into law school. She had straight A's, tons of extra curricular activities, etc - the model student. She didn't get in and when she started researching admission came across this data from a professor.
If being non-white is so heavily weighted, how could admissions not be biased? If being non-white gives one a huge advantage in likelyhood of being admitted, how could they not admit less qualified applicants. The policies speak for themselves.
Quote:
The workforce and college population is probably 80% white
Last I checked the population of the United States was 80% white, big suprise that the workplace and universities reflect the population.
http://eire.census.gov/popest/archives/national/nation3/intfile3-1.txt
So you're saying a segment of the population that represents 12% should be 50% of the workforce? Everyone loves to point their fingers at the rich (an extreme minority ~ 1%) when they get benefits because of their status. Isn't this the same concept.
I believe that giving people an automatic advantage because of their race or religion is wrong. That in my mind is inequality, and affirmative action is not right by those standards.
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"No person in the United States shall, on the ground of race, color, or national origin, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance.â? -1964 Civil Rights Act Quote:
the University of Michigan has simulated quotas to the best of their ability by awarding certain minority applicants 20 of the necessary 100 points on account of their race. Better put, members of "underrepresented" minority heritages and skin colors applying to the University need only 80 points to be accepted, while everyone else is required to have over 100.
How is this not a violation of the Civil Rights Act?
http://www.michiganreview.com/feature.php
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Originally posted by SVTNupe:
How do you know that the U of M is admitting less than qualified minorities? Are we just assuming this because of how the point system is supposedly rated? I'm not saying this doesn't happen but why do we make the assumption that it does? Also, why does a hiring manager have to hire a minority who is less qualified? I think that's total bull and is continually used as an excuse. There are so many colleges and universities that are gradutaing highly qualifed capable minorities. To say you just go and hire someone simply because he's black, hispanic or whatever to meet a level of diversity is utterly ridiculous. I'm not saying it isn't happening but that it's not an excuse. You're not looking hard enough is more like the excuse. We're out there.
We were discriminated against in such greater numbers that it doesn't even compare to what's going on today. The workforce and college population is probably 80% white. If I could walk around my company and many others and see minorities in positions of authority (or just see some of us period), etc then maybe I would feel a little bit differently about the subject but I don't. It's the same ole thing no matter where I go. We're constantly struggling and fighting to get that position. We have to work twice as hard to get recongnized and get half the chances.
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