Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums Modifications 3.0L Duratec nitrous on a 3L

I think you misread me demon...

i said running a direct port dry kit relying on a secondary computer to monitor your nitrous injection and open the injectors longer is asking to blow it up... i would never rely on my injectors to support a 100 shot on demand... that's why i would always run a wet kit with that much of a shot....

THEN I SAID your comment about high compression....

1. It's much more dangerous... running high compression period is more dangerous... look at AirKnight's now blown engine which we suspect is due to high compression and low octanes.... boosting it or juicing it would just worsen the problem

2. It takes more care and patience to tune a high compression engine, especially on the juice or forced induction.

3. It would take an even higher octane rating to do it... are you gonna run a sperate fuel tank with 100+ octane fuel just for n2o?

4. Anything can be done... i don't deny that, however it is far more difficult, involved and well I don't want to risk an engine, when i can prolly run a higher shot and still get the same gains, and be safer...


and your comment about the engine blowing, so i suppose you also consider buckshot, bnoon and every other person who blew an engine an idiot? and for your information, i have now seen a handful of 2001 3.0L engines with ... can you beleive it... SNAPPED timing chains... i'm not alone in this bunch... seems a bad batch of chains made it to production, and i was an unlucky recipient....

Opinion only...

I'm not aware of a change on the fly N20 system. Venom now has a package for Palm Piolets, which makes cockpit changes quick and easy. Still you must d/l the new parameters to the VCN Control Modual, takes about a minute.

I would think a VCN2000 feeding a 3L would offer enough flexibility and safety to run up to 100HP gain in Linear mode with zero problems. Add a TwEECer, or better yet WB O2 dyno tune & flip chip, and your sure to be in the safe zone. I never had any issues (once the software was de-bugged) running VCN2000 on a lightly modded (KKM, PRO-M, ProFlow, exhaust)2.5. Plugs (NGK TR55)always came out clean and the cars runs great today, 2 years and 30K miles later.

I don't think the level of compression (<11)or the HP(<350) are outside the safe limit of a bottle fed 3L Hybrid.

Mark

I think your right dom, and thats what I thought too when you posted what you are/were runing. 24lb injectors with a MAF for 17lbers.

As for the n2o acting as a cooling agent, true BUT it increases the cylinder pressure and c/r at the same time (or on in the same) so you DO need to pull timing out. That is why a tune is VERY CRITICAL especially on a higher c/r hybrid engine.

Originally posted by AirKnight:

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I highly doubt it was because of that. My problem was most likely a result from running lean at top end without the proper MAF calibration. I really don't think it's because of the high compression. Also, don't forget that nitrous acts as cooling agent, which will lower the temperature and prevent pinging. So adding it should really have much of a problem.

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So if I were to run the Venom 2000 kit, would it's piggy back computer (or whatever it is) be good enough to adjust the timing or A/F?

(I honestly have never looked into N20 at all and am just starting to....learn about it )

No. From my understanding the Venom controls the n2o (obviously) and somewhat controls fuel. It will monitor the above, plus a/f, bottle pressure (or line pressure not sure) etc etc and keep it safe.

If you want the tune (as Demon has said and I have said) TUNE THE [censored] CAR for the bottle!!!! Whether its twEECer or a custom burned flip chip!! If you are running the juice on a hybrid then the car needs tuned. PERIOD.

On Tom's 3L 24lb injectors at ~200FWHP are at 60% duty cycle (real info, not any formulas here)
That's a lot of duty cycle left to accommodate the nitrous.
So even a hot 3L at 230FWHP still would have ~20% DC left. (using a 95% max)
24lb injectors can safely support around 290FWHP and max at 325FWHP
If you were truly planning to run a lot of Nitrous (100+) 30lb injectors may be a better choice for a returnless car.
Now a return style car can get away with using smaller injectors and raising the fuel rail pressure. Definitely not the best way to do things but it would work. Plus since you are not using the nitrous very often the fuel fual rail pressure would not be a constant. (I.E. like an FI'd car with an FMU)

For Ref - We know that on the returnless cars the stock 19lb injectors will safely support 225 FWHP and as much as 250-255FWHP. (Chris's testing and a couple Venom kits that maxed the injectors - very lean! )

I still don't see why you are claiming 100 octane is what you would have to run. YOU CAN TUNE the engine to run on any octane. This is where the dyno tuning comes in.
I do agree more octane is better since it will let you make more power.
With that said it is not hard to add 1 gallon a Xylene to a partial tank to raise your octane.
1 gallon of Xylene in 4 gallons (quarter tank) of 92/93 equals 98-99 octane fuel.
1 gallon of Xylene in 7 gallons (half tank) of 92/93 equals 96-97 octane fuel.
1 gallon of xylene in a full tank raises it 1.5-2 octane. (not points like the POS boosters do!)
That's something you can do anytime and not have to find a "special gas station"

I think it's a given that you would need some dyno tuning to run Nitrous on a hybrid. Heck if it were me I would dyno tune ANY nitrous setup on any car. What's $100 compared to a new engine!
At that rate I would dyno tune any hybrid in the first place since it's well out of the normal parameters of the stock PCM program.
It's actually quite a statement the Ford EEC-V can adapt to the changes made. (It is quite an in-depth system & code)
Heck Brad even runs/ran Silvie on about every grade of octane out there without any problems.

IMO any problems with a 3L hybrid are in the re-building. (flame suit on!) The 2 that have been around the longest have been beat on and abused the most and are still going strong! Brad's didn't even get a full rebuild!