Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums General Troubleshooting A Message Form Terry Haines

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Tell the fools on CEG...

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A piece of advice is just that. If you offer it to someone and they dont use it then too bad for them. No need to bash the whole site. Sounds like a jerk to me.Usually the people that MIGHT be 1 percent smarter than the rest deduct 10 percent of that knowledge with arrogance

Sorry to turn this post into a Terry post rather than a contour post, but....

Just to put things in perspective - a while back I was having an issue with the car. I got some advice here on the boards - and then a couple of days later I got some really good advice in a personal Email from Terry.

I've argued with Terry a lot in the past about the DMD, and he recognized my screen name and knew that I was basicly a pain in the ass in every DMD thread he started, but he still took the time to send me some really good advice.

I'll admit he is somewhat "gruffer" in a lot of posts than I'm used to dealing with, but I've worked with other engineers that had even less social skills than that - I think there may be an inverse relationship between people skills and engineering ability

Just to make this part of my message short and sweet, I would have to agree to the fact that I think Terry's advice is truely needed and welcome across both boards.

I actually drove with more confidence last night after reading his e-mail and other messages on FCO on the topic of the oiling issue, or lack there of despite all the other garbage that got started.

On to topic at hand...


So correct me if I am wrong, but here is where we stand...

1)The new style Duratec oil pan is a waste. Terry has actually stated that it is more of a downgrade because of the timing chain baffle.
2)Spun rod bearings have not been proven to be caused by a overall design flaw in the oil distribution throughout the Duratec.
3) Crank whip seems to be the major contributing factor in the spun rod bearing issue.

A question I would like to ask about number 3. Could this be why some of the racing teams use the better material for there connecting rods? Couldn't the material, which is of better quality and strength, absorbe some of these harmonic vibrations that we are talking about with the use of the DMD. This is not to say that if you use better connecting rods, you don't have to use the DMD or vice versa, just trying to understand things for myself.

I'm sure they use better rods and better rod bearings. The Clevite 77 bearings are a huge improvement over the stock bearings.

Well, I guess I'll throw my $0.02 here.

Terry is certainly right, that the typical failure mode is in the rod end bearings. I do think there are a couple of inherent issues issues that lead to it though. Primarily is exactly as terry has described it, crank whip allows the bearing to "wipe" which distorts the surface layer of the bearing, which blocks/partially blocks the oiling hole in the bearing, which ultimately leads to the failure of the rod bearing. The secondary part of the equation here is the oiling system. When oil pressure drops off (when the pump can't pick up any more oil, even before the rest of the system runs dry, pressure starts to drop off) it makes the bearing more susceptible to crank whip (less oil pressure to maintain the oil film lubricating the bearing) because when the crank whips (flexes) it can increase the pressure loading on the bearing tremendously, forcing the oil out from in between the crank journal and the rod bearing, causing the wiped bearing, leading to the failure.

Basically, crank whip is the major issue, and the oiling stuff can simply help it along faster.


As far as Terry, he is certainly a capable engineer, and is capable of performing excellent work on his customer's vehicles. Where I feel Terry is lacking, is in "people skills", which makes misunderstandings too easy and common, leading to a lot of bad blood where none needed to be. As an example, I'm pretty sure Terry hates me because he chose to misintrepret some of my words/actions when he had a disagreement w/ a customer here on the forums, and I was forced to step in to do my job as an admin.

A couple of things:

Terry knows what he's talking about. Period. His advice is invaluable to all of us, is right almost 99% percent of the time, and is delivered any which way he feels like dishing it out at the time. He's helped me and plenty of other CEG'ers out on many questions, and if he's questioning the oil starvation issue, that's fair.

I run it safe, fill her up to 6qt's, and have a DMD. I bought the windage oil pan, but after Terry mentioned it seems to cause foaming, I didn't install it.

I haven't had an engine failure yet, but I'm at 48K after 6 yrs of spirited driving. If and when it happens, believe you me, I'll get upgraded bearings for the 3L I'd drop in, along with some 3L pistons/valves and cunnigham rods.

As for now, where do we get those clevite 77 bearings??

terry was the greatest thing to happen to this board. he isnt right 99% of the time he is right all the time. it is too bad that a couple of people ran him off of this site and the rest have to suffer for it. i would like to thank the administrators at www.fordcontour.org for giving terry his own forum to help us out and answer all of our questions. hopefully someday he can make it back to the ceg and hopefully someday the ceg can appologize for the things they did.

anyone who needs his advice can go to fco and ask...actually i like the idea that he has his own forum, prolly shoulda been the same here...they are doing right by him on that site

that being said, in my opinion he treated at least some people as bad as a typical ford service person many times...maybe he didn't mean to come off wrong, but on the internet its difficult to judge a persons feelings or attitude since u aren't face to face or hearing their voice...the maternal side of a highschool friends family was british and while they were at times very gruff (his g'ma in particular) they were very very wonderful people face to face...maybe that is also the case with terry as many have mentioned how nice and personable he is..also, i seem to remember him having been quite a hit according to those who went to sz

im sure his expertise is valuable but many act like their car wouldn't even run if terry didn't give advice...he's been gone from here for months and new problems crop up everyday...and are taken care of suggestion-wise by some of the same people he tried to make fun of in that post on fco...i think the sucess rate here is still pretty good...someone in a post just the other day mentioned how this site is much more helpful than other (not necessarily contour) sites are in his opinion

but he played a very big part in his leaving this site and to say that ceg is solely to blame and ceg (whether its meant as us members or the hierarchy or both) hopefully someday will appologize is pretty one-sided...it cuts both ways...

others say it and i'll take their word for it that terry's a righteous dude...basically a few very bad nites online hurt him here

i have opinions about both sites good and bad and i wish it were a more friendly rivalry....ceg is very good and keeps me from visiting other sites on the web because i spend sooooo much time here...in many instances fco is better because it offers some really good insight on getting things done and the posts i found complete with instructions and pics that doc has put up are priceless...his info on the 3.0 install was better than almost anything i found here

y-o-y cant we all get along

now a question:...why does it seem that the later model duratecs seem to be the ones suffering the engine problems moreso than the older models? maybe im not thinking correctly right now, but for all the quirks the older contiques seem to age better...was there anything that was changed about the engine over the yrs???