Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums General Troubleshooting HELP !! Blown SVT engine, what to do ?

if same cost, Terry vs. Ford (or anyone else) - go with Terry

Terry, go ahead and quote me for both new and refurb engines (use email or private message if you wish). Also, any idea what an average transport cost would be from here (Wash. DC area) to your place ? Thanks ! - Dave
P.S. I understand that I could use the good stuff on top of my existing engine, i.e. intake and heads, etc. Let me know if your quotes take that into account.

By the way, a couple of side questions, slightly related -- has anyone on the planet come up with aftermarket cams for the Duratec SVT engine to bump up the HP ? And to anyone's knowledge, what is the highest HP achieved with this family of engines (including Zetec) and still have a reliable engine ?

I must be missing somthing here. We don't know what part of the engine is "blown", can't tell without spending more money than its worth? First hint - VERY WRONG MECHANIC - GO ELSEWHERE!! If nothing else, describe what happened here. Some of us have "autopsied" blown motors before.
If there is block/crank/connecting rod/piston damage, I don't see where the 3.0L isn't a possibility. SHO-Shop sells the short blocks for $1500 ("3.0L Conversion Kit - $1499 NEW! not rebuilt. Breathe new life into your Contour SVT/Cougar, or regular 2.5L with our 3.0L Conversion Kit. Brand New short block is modified in our facility and comes with all necessary gaskets, seals and bolts. Adds 25 HP and 40 ft.lbs of torque without any airflow modifications! No core is needed!")
You'll need to keep a bunch of parts from the SVT, but you start off with a 0 mile block. Even if they charge $1000 to ship the 3.0L from California and install it, you're at $2500, which sounds less than the multi-K the Ford dealer quoted.
As far as the year of the block, wrong. You have to keep the correct year emissions on the vehicle according to Federal law (if they ever figure out what you are supposed to have). Dropping a short block has nothing to do with it.
As far as a shop with a clue, SPMOTORSPORTS is in Gaithersburg, MD. How far from you? Anybody talked to them to see how much they'd charge for the 3.0 swap? They do SHO work, as well as some Contour work.
Sorry about the temper regarding the dealership, but they aren't mechanics anymore, just "technicians" who follow a manual.

I agree with Carl.

Carl,
Thanks for your remarks -- they're appreciated. Yes, I know -- I didn't feel very good about the scoop I got from the dealership. However, they did *not* say a detailed analysis would cost anywhere near the price of the replacement. But for me, even a few $hundred is more than I want to spend to find out the exact problem. It would only be absorbed into the cost if I have the work done there, and I am pretty sure I don't want to do that. Don't get me wrong -- I like the idea of going elsewhere -- I just don't know who in the area is reputable. So far, SP Motorsports in Gaithersburg sounds the best for me, as it is not too far from me. I have heard of them and have been to their website, so they are not new to me.
By the way, reading your post sounds like you are on the SHO Shops staff (I have also been to their website a while back). What part of PA is SHO Shops in ? If it is somewhere in lower PA, that might be a viable option too.
Earlier today, I informed "chknhwk" (see previous post) that I am interested in the SVT motor from his wrecked 98 Contour SVT -- I need to confirm with him very soon as to what I am doing, and if I went with his motor, I will still need someone reasonably close to do the install.
Anyway, thanks again for your thoughts. I will post a description of what happened with my SVT (symptoms etc), but right now I have to go-- a ride is here. Til later . ..

Actually, I have no relation to SHO Shop, other than that they are in California where I was born. I know several SHO owners who have used their stuff in the past, and I have had conversations with them regarding my SVT. I've also talked twice to Joe at SP Motorsports. Of the two, I'd say SP has a better clue regarding SVT's. This is based on responses to technical questions. SP also has a conection to the SHO shop, based on their parts sales. I can't speak to too many of the other parts houses, as I didn't see much to what they were offering.
At present, my Contour is fairly stock, but that's because it just came out of warranty. I'm planning on the ST200 intakes, and a SHO Shop h-pipe (the car needs to be every-day driveable). Most of my hot-rodding experience has been on more traditional engines (small block Fords and Mopars, turbo 2.3's, and 5.0L's), but the SVT's are still engines, although a bit more complex than a '70 Ford.
The 3.0L change makes more sense to me than dropping a used motor in, since you don't know the history of the used motor (oil changes? beaten on?) The 3.0L gets the new short block, as well as additional displacement (I was raised on the mantra "there ain't no replacement for cubic displacement"). You're spending money, but at least getting more than you started with.
As far as the dealership telling you several hundred dollars just to diagnose the problem, something is really wrong. What are the symptoms? Metal in the oil? A hole in the side of the block? Oil in the coolant? Won't turn over? What was happening when it died? Piston condition and lower block conditions can be checked with a borescope. Why several hundred dollars? The answer is that they don't feel like doing it. If its a spun bearing, it may be repairable. What makes them think that you need to spend $4500 to put in a new 2.5L? Answer - repair is not as profitable. Mechanics get payed based on a job time factor multiplied by the labor rate of the dealership. Wanna bet that the replacement has a juicy time factor, while I&R doesn't? What's the dealerships take on the new engine from Ford?

SHO Shop is in Huntingdon Beach, California (near LA). They charged me $255 to ship their block to Philadelphia (including the extra charge for the freight company to deliver with a liftgate equipped truck).

Being a customer of SHO Shop for their 3.0 block, I say that you can do better by buying a new (or cheaper yet, used) 3.0 block and having somebody trustworthy (Terry for instance) modify it the way it needs to be. Not worth the premium for the minimal amount of work needed (all of which was not done to my block by the way). Not to mention that they were extremely unhelpful with any questions I ran into doing the job. Vadim was very helpful if you could get him on the phone, but the guy who normally answers the phone acted like I was a bother to him, and gave me completely wrong answers to my questions at times. I don't recommend them to tell the truth. Their "complete gasket set" I was promised was 3.0 head gaskets and valve cover gaskets (which are useless with 2.5 heads). They sent me the wrong head bolts (3.0 pushrod), costing me 3 days. One to convince them they screwed up, one for them to get the right set, one to UPS Red them to me. And I had to follow up weeks after I returned my core TB to get my refund.

SP Motorsports (well, really Pro Tech Automotive) NO QUOTED doing the 3.0 for me. Told me that "it was not worth their effort to get into extensive engine modifications on a Contour." So my money (which is as green as everyone else's) went to a local shop who made a nice profit working on my car (at a fair price for someone who's never disassembled a Duratech). From what I hear, the guy that owns Pro Tech dislikes Contours and everything about them (just what I've heard). Joe at SP is totally cool, don't get me wrong. But they use Pro Tech as their shop (again, my understanding of the situation).

Just my advice from someone who's been there.

Carl,
For your benefit and anyone else's who cares -- here is the short story of what happened:
=======================
Had recently noticed a VERY faint rattle in the engine bay area. Was recently driving from home, down the I-66W (northern VA) for about 15 miles to another town. While driving to local gas station to fuel up, heard the rattle again, suspected perhaps loose items in valvetrain, maybe needed valve adjustment. Looked at oil level, and OMG!!!, it was wayyyyyy down.
NOTE! (a) I always had regular oil changes done, and just days before had looked at the oil level -- it was fine, and the oil was quite clean as it had been changed just a month before. (b) NO engine warning light had EVER come on to warn me of a low oil level. (c) I found NO oil on the ground, either at home or where I had parked when I found the oil level low. Also, I had never noticed any indications in the exhaust color to indicate that I was burning oil.
So, I wondered, and STILL wonder, where the heck did it go ?? I immediately replenished the oil, but from that point, the noise in the engine bay remained 24/7, and was slightly louder.
Then, after a week of not driving the car, I decided to get it to a shop. Was going down freeway, noise was continuous but not very loud. Soon though, it did get louder, and instead of sounding like needing a valve adjustment, sounded like maybe clutch bearing was coming apart or similar, and like something had come completely loose. Immediately took an offramp (as parking on the shoulder of this freeway has repeatedly proven fatal). Had the tranny in neutral, coasted to a stop. Just as I came to a stop, the engine died. I managed to restart it, but it only stayed running for about 15 seconds. Would not restart.
After having my SVT taken to the Ford dealer, and after it had been examined, the Service Team Leader called me and basically said (paraphrased):
1.) Bad news, engine has serious problems, you are going to need a replacement engine.
2.) Asked what had happened, he said couldn't be sure without tearing down the engine, cost to do that would be expensive. Better to spend $$$ to just get the job done, and have a "new" refurb motor that would come with a 2 year warranty.
3.) Asked if it could be the clutch, he said they ruled out the clutch early on.
4.) Remember how I said I had NO warning light about low oil, had seen NO oil on the ground, and NO indication of burnt oil in the exhaust ? He told me that when they looked at things, the oil was incredibly dirty and sludgy !
4.) Said his best guess was PERHAPS something like a broken connecting rod or similarly serious item ... couldn't be sure without tearing down the engine, cost to do that would be expensive. Advised that it would be better to spend $$$ to just get the job done, and have a "new" refurb motor that would come with a 2 year warranty.
Well, I TRIED to be brief ... that's the long and the short of it ...

P.S. Yes, I reminded myself later that I had an overhead cam engine, and there wasn't much to adjust in the "valvetrain" ... as opposed to older engines.