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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,469
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,469 |
I think synthetics are best for SVT for 3 reasons..
1) Be it from oil starvation or crank whip, Duratecs have an issue with spun bearings. Key oil factor relating to bearing protection is viscosity index (better VI = mre durable oil film on bearing). Synthetics are better in measure VI (Amsoil best, Mobil 1 & Redline next best IIRC).
2) SVT Duratec is about the highest reving Domestic street engine (actually tied with SVT Cobra 4.6 at 7K RPM & SVT Focus at 7.2K). SVT has peak power at 6600+ RPM which means you are near redline alot.
3) Synthetic is factory fill on some of the best engines...Vette, MB, BMW, Porsche...makes you wonder??
A "typical" motor that runs under 5K RPM most of the time with no spun bearing issues......I may not bother with synthetic. But an SVT motor......
1999 Amazon Green SVT Contour (#554/2760)
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."
-Soren Kierkegaard (as posted by Jato)
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37
New CEG\'er
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New CEG\'er
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37 |
Change interval for high end synthetics is NOT 5k miles. 25k miles, with warranty. Change the filter every 12.5k miles, again warranty. Price per quart is around $6. Filter for a Contour is less than $10. Let's NOT use the same filter for dino oil. Synthetics require better filters. And by high end, I'm talking synthetics formulated to run more than 7.5k miles (Mobil 1). Who's manipulating numbers, change the oil as specified by the oil manufacturer. And my Contour uses 6 quarts of oil..not 5. We'll use your outlandish 40k per year (very high number).
Dino (Mobile 0) (3k)
5 quarts of oil on sale..................4.99
Motorcraft Filter........................3.99
1 oil change.............................9.00
13 oil changes per year................$117.00
Amsoil (for example)
1 quart + 1 filter @ 12.5k..............$16.00
6 quarts + 1 filter @ 25k...............$46.00
1 quart + 1 filter @ 37.5k..............$16.00
Total...................................$78.00
I still save $39 (plus labor) with my higher capacity engine that the starter spins at the same speed whether it's -10F or 90F. Now let's add labor of $10 per time on the lift. Synthetic - $108. Dino - $207.
What's your problem Jack?
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653
I have no life
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I have no life
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653 |
Originally posted by tboner:
So buy what makes you sleep better at night.
that's why i buy synthetic. smoother idle means something to me. and even a small chance for longer engine life is good reason to me. Synthetics have been proven to protect better. (maintain properties better, can help on young engines, of course bad for engine that already has bad seals). For most people, synthetic is not needed (not keeping the car for over 150k miles, not treating the car like it's made to race, no extreme conditions) but for some (keeper car FOREVER, treating it badly sometimes,etc.) synthetic is worth the little extra. and i still change below 5k miles (last change was at 3100 miles), but I do use a motorcraft filter.
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,789
I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
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I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,789 |
Hi Bill,
Sorry for the long winded response.
Originally posted by Thuundar80530:
Change interval for high end synthetics is NOT 5k miles.
And similarly, change intervals for conventional oils are NOT 3k miles.
Quote:
25k miles, with warranty. Change the filter every 12.5k miles, again warranty.
That is if you buy into Amsoils claims of 25k changes. At least one of the Big 3 has no confidence in there claims based on their testing.
Quote:
Price per quart is around $6. Filter for a Contour is less than $10. Let's NOT use the same filter for dino oil. Synthetics require better filters. And by high end, I'm talking synthetics formulated to run more than 7.5k miles (Mobil 1).
You never specified so I used Fords recommendation of Mobile 1 in SVTs as a comparison. I decided on 3 and 5k intervals because both are ridiculously low. If I had any idea that you were referring to Amsoil, I would have increased the interval.
Quote:
Who's manipulating numbers (?)
Before this post, it appeared as you were because you didn't establish any parameters for your original numbers.
Quote:
And my Contour uses 6 quarts of oil..not 5.
Congratulations, mine used just about the same. My Escort, Biscayne and Ranger use less(!). Now let's get back on topic.
Quote:
We'll use your outlandish 40k per year (very high number).
I deeply apologize for my long commute to work. Perhaps, I should have picked a less outlandish place to live, but I like it and I think I will stay.
I will just get rid of the example as we can manipulate the numbers to give us whatever result we want.
Quote:
What's your problem Jack?
I have no problem, George. I was just trying to make a point that few if any of us NEEDS to use synthetic as it hasn't been proven to extend engine life. Most synthetics cost more to use. If Amsoil does get to the point that its additives survive the 25k mile duration, I may consider using it if it saved me money. But until then, I would feel safer using conventionals with a 5k interval.
Nice discussing this with you, Gilbert.
btw, nice guess at my name with "Jack", I have a cousin named Jack so you were damn close! Did I come close with Bill, Gilbert or George?
Dave
Last edited by dnewma04; 01/08/03 07:21 PM.
"If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit"
-Mitch Hedberg
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,867
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,867 |
Function before fashion.
'96 Contour SE
"Toss the Contour into a corner, and it's as easy to catch as a softball thrown by a preschooler." -Edmunds, 1998
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,789
I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
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I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,789 |
I did make a mistake in my interpretation of the testing. Synthetic will extend engine life, but regular oil changes with Dyno will allow an engine to remain within tolerances to the 250k to 300k. At this mileage, wear is measurable but not engine life threatening. With a synthetic, it will be better. So, if you plan to drive your vehicle to 500k miles or that range, that would be a good reason to use synthetic. Sorry for the misinfo.
"If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit"
-Mitch Hedberg
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653
I have no life
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I have no life
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653 |
bingo. good dino, good changes, good life. gooder synthetic. good changes, gooder life. i do plan to keep my 'tour to the point that most cars would have 500k miles, but i'll have another car or two or three by then. so the 'tour will stay lower miles and become a show car. 
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 429
CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 429 |
This hasn't been an issue for over a decade. Synthetics are superior in every way, except cost.
No need to worry at all about using in your engine.
Dan B.
96 SE 2.5 auto
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,506
Hard-core CEG'er
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OP
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,506 |
Originally posted by Thuundar80530:
Change interval for high end synthetics is NOT 5k miles. 25k miles, with warranty. Change the filter every 12.5k miles, again warranty. Price per quart is around $6. Filter for a Contour is less than $10. Let's NOT use the same filter for dino oil. Synthetics require better filters. And by high end, I'm talking synthetics formulated to run more than 7.5k miles (Mobil 1). Who's manipulating numbers, change the oil as specified by the oil manufacturer. And my Contour uses 6 quarts of oil..not 5. We'll use your outlandish 40k per year (very high number).
OK, I have to disagree with part of the above statement. Any oil I would not change every 25,000 Miles. The longest I have gone is 10,000k and thats only because I was on business trips with my work and didn;t have time.
And 40k is just a ludicrus number. I know...some manufatures now say you can go 25k, 30k and even 50k before you have an oil change....But if you speak to a meachnic (even most dealer mechanics)here in SanJose, CA, they still
reconmend changing oil every 5 to 7k miles.
Even my own work a parts whole seller,(who has few cars in the SpeedVision challange)reconmend a 5 to 7 interval. And I trust my work more than a mechanic.
Just my opinion.
Roz
3.0 SVT hybrid...all the fixens...Track/Race ready very soon!!!!!! 20,000 + miles
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,789
I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
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I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,789 |
40k in the original example is the mileage I put on my car on average during a given year. It is not an oil change interval.
I don't buy into the Amsoil 25k oil change. It CAN happen under ideal conditions, but even with amsoil, your engine ( even the best engine with the best oil) will burn oil. I would expect that at least 1 quart (likely more) filler quart would be used under even ideal conditions. Oil usage in a typical engine can range from 3k to 14k (on the same engine one 2.5l duratec compared to another 2.5l duratec). The issue with Amsoil is that they use the same additives as the rest of the industry and they will rarely last as long as their claimed 25k miles.
"If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit"
-Mitch Hedberg
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