Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums Modifications Brakes Performance Brake Upgrade

or if you live in a very hot state that sees ambient air temperatures in the 100+'s (rotors will be significantly more hot), meaning you'll cook your rotors easily on a stop and go commute home, and just when you're not looking, some jerk cuts you off, and the hot rotors just won't cut it. . .

Air temps are not going to have much to do with the rotor temps. Hot rotor temps are upwards of 600-800 degrees. I'll take the PHX heat here to cool this off, and living in a state with cooler temps won't cool them down any faster just further. Like after you park.

I guess if you ran a 'hot lap' in Alaska and parked in a snow bank....then again they'd prob crack! LOL

Originally posted by MFE:

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A bigger brake will offer more braking torque which will make that mass more transparent. So what, you might say, you'll still lock the wheel. Well, the bigger brakes also allow you to slow the car hard more frequently and furthermore the bigger effective lever makes them easier to modulate at threshold.

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Actually, Grassroots Motorsports did some testing on Big Brake kits for the Miata. Not one of the kits stopped the car any faster. They did, however, have less fade.

The biggest single factor in braking performance? Tires, with pads as a close second. Putting r-compounds on helped the car stop in a much shorter distance, as did some types of pads. Heck, my T-Bird SC stopped like I was tossing a battelship anchor out of the car, and it's rotors are smaller than my SVT rotors. By an inch.

A decent alternative is the BAT Big Brake Kit that puts you into SVT Contour-sized front rotors and good pads for about $300. Pair that with the braided-steel brake hoses and a good system bleed and you get better response to the pedal and improved overall braking for under $400 (if you do the work yourself). I equipped my '95 LX with this setup and we noticed a distinct difference. The overall stopping distance may not be that much shorter but the response and feel are much, much improved.

Great Looks like I will upgrade my pads first. I thought rotors helped significantly in braking. Anyone recommend pads or just the premium ceramic pads from pepboys. Where is a good place to look for steel braded lines?

Thanks,
Jason

While I agree that the tires are an important factor in this, what happens if you put on a tire that has more adhesion properties than the stock one? Perhaps a bit wider foot print and a softer compound.

One would think that if this level of grip was increased then the amount of torque generated could also be exploited to gain the benefit of this grip.

Since most folks who are serious enthusiasts here, I submit that 'better' brakes can indeed enhance the stopping power of the car relative to the tire of choice.

Yes, I've read the articles over the years and for the most part they are correct, however simply adding a stickier tire will not in itself shorten up the stopping distances as much as matching this to a brake mod as well. And of course the comments of repeatability is a valid one.

LOL!! Do the work yourself eh Jeb. LOL!!!

-Andy

Originally posted by Todd TCE:

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While I agree that the tires are an important factor in this, what happens if you put on a tire that has more adhesion properties than the stock one? Perhaps a bit wider foot print and a softer compound.

One would think that if this level of grip was increased then the amount of torque generated could also be exploited to gain the benefit of this grip.

Since most folks who are serious enthusiasts here, I submit that 'better' brakes can indeed enhance the stopping power of the car relative to the tire of choice.

Yes, I've read the articles over the years and for the most part they are correct, however simply adding a stickier tire will not in itself shorten up the stopping distances as much as matching this to a brake mod as well. And of course the comments of repeatability is a valid one.

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And that's why when a question like this is asked, one has to ask what the goal is. Are there any other changes that are warranted besides or in addition to brake changes.

Great discussion gentlemen.

TB

Originally posted by Phil Rohtla:

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The biggest single factor in braking performance? Tires, with pads as a close second. Putting r-compounds on helped the car stop in a much shorter distance, as did some types of pads. Heck, my T-Bird SC stopped like I was tossing a battelship anchor out of the car, and it's rotors are smaller than my SVT rotors. By an inch.

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Well now wait a second...if bigger rotors don't make a difference since you can lock the wheels even with smaller ones, why would pads make a difference, since you can lock the wheels with the crappy ones?

Makes you wonder, huh?

The fact is, despite GRM's test on one car which is hardly representative of the average car, there's *generally* a LOT more to braking distance capability than simply clearing the hurdle of being able to lock the wheels, even given identical tires. This "i can lock the wheels so the brakes are as powerful as they need to be" thing is a very common misconception. You can lock the wheels with a 4-wheel drum setup but you better believe the braking distance is looooooong.

See, whether or not the wheels lock is NOT solely dependent on the friction between the tire and the road. An inferior braking system will spike to locking sooner than a superior one will due to the nature of the way the pads and the rotors interact. The fact that it locked isn't just because it generated enough braking power to overcome the tires and that's all that needs to be generated.

Locking the brakes.

If you can lock the brakes on dry pavement, then in that situation you do have more clamping force needed. You have "too much" in relation to the grip of your tires.

I didn't say what I meant to say very well, as I didn't even address the concern about repeatability. (Can you make multiple high speed brake applications in a short period of time, such as on a track or an autocross course.)

Locking the brakes simply indicates that you have gone beyond the traction available to the tires. I doubt you can decrease stopping distance by changing any brake component, until you change to a tire with more traction.

That is what I was trying to say.

Sorry I threw my $0.02 into this thread.

TB