Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums General Troubleshooting oil stravation cause..right here!

Mine says 5 qts. 6 with the filter.

2000 SVT

Thats srange Danny! My 2000 manual says 5.8 qts. I've always had them put 6 qts. in mine. This is strange, inaccurate manuals,inacurate dipsticks, heads not properly draining oil back to the pan. What the hell is going on here? How does this many mistakes go unnoticed? I'm not calling anybody a liar but how do we know this guy is telling the truth? I dont want to cost this guy his job but is there some way this could be indepently verified? If the drain holes in the heads are the problem, How does adding more oil to the pan make any difference? Since all you have done is add extra oil and not addressed the drain problem oil is still going to back up in the heads at the same rate, you will just have more oil in the heads now! I may be wrong he may be genuine but somethings not right here.

The question is...is there actually enough room in the heads for about 5.75 quarts of oil (or however much oil 6 quarts minus 1/2 pint is).

That much oil takes up quite a bit of space.

Plus, if the problem is that the stock filter doesn't flow enough, as some claim, then how can the problem be that the oil drain passages from the head back to the pan don't flow enough?

If the problem really is that the oil stays up in the heads too long, then putting a high-flow oil filter on will just make the problem worse (assuming that the oil path is pump-filter-heads).

It might not make that much difference, though--I think filters are designed to bypass the filter media if the flow is too high (a high-flow oil filter may just not have to bypass the media at higher flows) and the oil pump itself has a bypass according to the shop manual.

Brian

by qaz
"Plus, if the problem is that the stock filter doesn't flow enough, as some claim, then how can the problem be that the oil drain passages from the head back to the pan don't flow enough?

If the problem really is that the oil stays up in the heads too long, then putting a high-flow oil filter on will just make the problem worse (assuming that the oil path is pump-filter-heads)."

Just to comment - I do not think I or anyone else claimed the oil filter WAS the problem. More that it COULD BE a problem, and still could. This information suggests that either the oil pump is rapidly pumping ALOT of oil to the heads to lube those 4 fat hollow overhead cams, or the oil is hanging up in the heads along time (or both). The point of the oil filter discussion was that the Motorcraft and other filters had NOT BEEN TESTED to high flow rates that the pump is capable of. This means that the filter bypass mechanism flow capacity was NOT TESTED EITHER. Maybe it works well enough, maybe it doesnt, but I wanted it tested! K&N is the only one that does (and BTW turns out to filter better than Motorcraft in DEMON SVTs oil analysis comparison).

As far as making the problem worse, this makes no sense to me. If the filter IS a restriction, it would mean the oil would just sit in the sump until backpressure dropped. Oil sitting in the sump does nothing, it HAS to be pumped to the heads where gravity lets it drip down to the bearings where it is needed. This information (if accurate) suggests MORE oil is needed in the system - in the stock pan, in a bigger pan, in Accusump etc. Consistant with what I learned from the racers, it explains why baffling is of limited value. A high flow filter will just help ensure that it is pumped efficiently to the heads so it can drip back to the bearings. This info does argue that the filter they were using (presumably Motorcraft but who knows) presumably does flow well enough but I am not sure the case is closed on that either.

isn't somewhere after the pump a sort of
compressor that will regulate the flow of the oil in the heads? Is the oil climbing right from the pump to the heads? i've seen this sort of compressor on some european engines, more precisely on a Citroen engine... Basicaly what it does it discharge back in the pan the extra pressure build up by the pump at high rpms

After the filter its MAIN OIL GALLERY for crank FIRST,the feed to the heads is a reduced pressure & volume via restictors,en route it operates the chain tensioners.The only non pressure 'splash' feeds on this engine are :- finger follower rollers,valve stems,timing chains.All the rest are pressure fed.

I agree with what you said.

I think it might be possible that the oil pump moves too much oil at higher RPMs. (As in, a lower flow of oil would be more than sufficient to lubricate the engine at higher RPMs without the danger of running the pan dry).

Someone could put an oil level sensor into their pan to see if the level drops significantly at higher RPMs to confirm this problem.

Regarding the K&N filter having better filtration than the Motorcraft filter, I've recently come across information that says OE filters, like Motorcraft, are designed to last longer by not filtering as well as aftermarket filters do (so that the filter can operate longer before getting plugged up and going into bypass).

If true, this would indicate that the "oil filter study" is WRONG and the Motorcraft filters do not use the Purolator Pure One element (he made this determination by a purple dye on the element seam that also happened to be found on the Pure One filter).

Brian

I agree with what you are trying to say Dan. The filter itself is not playing a role in the problem at this point if in fact it is true that the oil doesnt drain back to the crancase fast enough. Oil does not drain from the heads and drip on the bearings to lube them. The oil is supposed to drain straight back to the crankcase sump. The bearings are pressure fed from the oil pump through the channels in the block and crankshaft. The qeustion is NOT wether the heads will hold 6 qts. of oil. The fact is they SHOULD NOT hold that much oil! If it is true that they are then some sourt of foul up at engine assembly happened. I have seen improperly installed headgaskets block off the oil drain passages before. Do I think that has happened? Probably not, Unless improper instalation of the headgaskets on THIS particular engine would somehow result in only half of the drain passages being blocked off. One reason I'm waiving the BULL**** flag on this one is, in all of my years of working on engines I've never seen one yet that would run just perfectly with just a 1/2 quart of oil in the sump.[no oil light] That is until you make a hard right hand turn and then all hell breaks loose. Yeah right! So for now I'm waiving the flag.

If it's a drainback problem, then what good would it do to put an extra quart in? That's just an extra quart stuck up top not able to get back down to the pump. All I can see it doing is taking a little extra time to get it down to the dangerous level but if it's a drainback deal it's going to get low in the pan sooner or later if you keep your foot in it.

Maybe the theory is that there's room for 6 quarts in the heads but not 7

Brian