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Originally posted by Fmr12B:
Roger,
In the rules under STS and Engine it states: Headers, emissions-legal
It does not go into detail about emissions on the page you linked. I would think because I have a CAT that is 50-state legal in my S-Shop Y that I would be OK, because it is emissions legal.
Let me know where I'm wrong..... I'm sure I am.
Thanks for the link to the SCCA rules Roger. The Y-pipe issue is very interesting. I guess what kills it is: "Engine and transmission must remain unmodified, including emissions equipment, except as noted below: " Since the Y-pipe has a high-flow cat and is an emissions part, that would be considered a modification to the emissions equipment. What is puzzling though, is that headers are allowed, yet many headers directly affect the emissions equipment, in particular the elimination of the pre-cats, and the OBDII functionality of monitoring precat performance with upstream and downstream O2 sensors. The rule is ambiguous in the sense that although the Y-pipe has a higher flowing cat, it's still 50 state emissions legal, and even exceeds this STS requirement: "All STS vehicles must comply with the Federal 49-state safety and tailpipe emissions test requirements as a minimum. " So, I think the Y-pipe falls into a grey area on the STS rules.
'96 Contour SE, 130k, traded 6/19/03 for: '03 Infiniti G35 Coupe , Diamond Graphite '02 Corvette Z06, Electron Blue Pic
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Originally posted by bnoon:
You're right Roger. Since he's not playing with a '98 or newer Contour, he's not allowed the SVT parts
Yeah, I think the SVT brakes are out, as the STS rules are pretty clear cut on that. I was going to pull the excuse that the European Mondeo was sold in '96 with the SVT brakes, but then this got me: "An item of standard or optional equipment that could have been ordered with the car, installed on the factory production line, and delivered through a dealer in the United States. " Oh well, so much for that idea. Actually, I can probably do a lot with the stock sized brakes including new slotted or drilled rotors, many performance brake pads to choose from, and braided stainless brake lines. And for auto-X, the brakes aren't going to make a huge difference in my times- I think the tires and suspension are more important.
'96 Contour SE, 130k, traded 6/19/03 for: '03 Infiniti G35 Coupe , Diamond Graphite '02 Corvette Z06, Electron Blue Pic
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Right on on the brakes. For autocross, I swear you won't miss them. You may smell them after a run, but I've never pushed my brakes as hard as when bedding them in. Track days are another story.
If you find heat to be a problem, your other option is ducting, but at the low speeds we encounter, I don't know how much good they would do.
Function before fashion.
'96 Contour SE
"Toss the Contour into a corner, and it's as easy to catch as a softball thrown by a preschooler." -Edmunds, 1998
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Originally posted by stingray454:
Originally posted by Fmr12B:
Roger,
In the rules under STS and Engine it states: Headers, emissions-legal
It does not go into detail about emissions on the page you linked. I would think because I have a CAT that is 50-state legal in my S-Shop Y that I would be OK, because it is emissions legal.
Let me know where I'm wrong..... I'm sure I am.
Thanks for the link to the SCCA rules Roger. The Y-pipe issue is very interesting. I guess what kills it is:
"Engine and transmission must remain unmodified, including emissions equipment, except as noted below: "
Since the Y-pipe has a high-flow cat and is an emissions part, that would be considered a modification to the emissions equipment. What is puzzling though, is that headers are allowed, yet many headers directly affect the emissions equipment, in particular the elimination of the pre-cats, and the OBDII functionality of monitoring precat performance with upstream and downstream O2 sensors.
The rule is ambiguous in the sense that although the Y-pipe has a higher flowing cat, it's still 50 state emissions legal, and even exceeds this STS requirement:
"All STS vehicles must comply with the Federal 49-state safety and tailpipe emissions test requirements as a minimum. "
So, I think the Y-pipe falls into a grey area on the STS rules.
Nobody ever said life was fair. The 49-state legality clause is a minimum. The "unmodified" clause restricts you further. Little 4-banger Hondas with no pre-cats can run 49-state legal headers all day. We can't, because it would require us to break the "unmodified" rule. The only "grey" area I see is the pipe between the pre-cats and the main cat. That's why the "optimized Y" is OK.
Function before fashion.
'96 Contour SE
"Toss the Contour into a corner, and it's as easy to catch as a softball thrown by a preschooler." -Edmunds, 1998
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In reply to:
This isn't NASCAR. This is a gentlemen's game. Play right or take your toys home.
Interesting. Very interesting. Unfortunately, based on what I've seen at my local SCCA events, there aren't too many gentlemen then. Although they are nice and courteous to chat with, based on my browsing through the car class rules, many of them are definitely not playing by the rules with the car classifications and allowable mods. In reply to:
Your friend in the Cougar is breaking the rules and "getting away with something."
He's not my friend. I just met the guy and was chatting with him while waiting in line to run again in the staging area. He talked like he knew all the rules, but I guess he didn't. In reply to:
Classing is the responsibility of the driver. It's an honor thing.
I still find that amazing, considering how few honest people there are around these days. It seems to be more of "its only illegal if you get caught" and "nice guys finish last" rather than an honor thing.
'96 Contour SE, 130k, traded 6/19/03 for: '03 Infiniti G35 Coupe , Diamond Graphite '02 Corvette Z06, Electron Blue Pic
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Originally posted by bnoon:
You're right Roger. Since he's not playing with a '98 or newer Contour, he's not allowed the SVT parts. The SVT parts will fit a '98+ regular Contour under those rules, because those parts were available on a Contour as part of the SVT option package. Rules are ment to be pushed as hard as you can. If you don't break a few, you're not trying hard enough...
In reply to:
C.Equipment and/or specifications may be exchanged between different years and models of a vehicle if
(a) the item is standard on the year/model from which it was taken,
(b) the years/models are listed on the same line of Appendix A (Street Prepared Classes).
The updated/backdated part or the part to which it is to be attached may not be altered, modified, machined or otherwise changed to facilitate
the updating/backdating allowance. The updating and/or backdating of engines, transmissions or transaxles must be done as a unit; component
parts of these units may not be interchanged. Cars not listed in the Street Prepared sections of Appendix A may not be updated/backdated until
approved by the SEB and published in SportsCar magazine.
Appendix A Note that the SVT is basically by itself, there. No Contours from different years, and no 98+ GL's or SE's. Now, time was when the SVT wasn't even listed, so things may improve in this area. It just means we have to petition "the board" until we get some action. Brad, there's pushing, and there's breaking, and there's a difference. I say again, this is a gentlemen's (and ladies') game, here. Not NASCAR. In reply to:
So act that your principle of action might safely be made a law for the whole world.
Immanuel Kant
Function before fashion.
'96 Contour SE
"Toss the Contour into a corner, and it's as easy to catch as a softball thrown by a preschooler." -Edmunds, 1998
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Well, I meant "friend" in the loosest definition of the term. No intent to offend.
As for the others, too bad. I have not seen this in my region. In fact, just the opposite. People arguing that they ought to be in a tougher class (where they will get their butts kicked) and the event guys saying "don't worry about it."
It may be that your local organizers allow some leeway. If so, so be it. I'd rather be up front about it.
If you just want to have fun and mod your car, you can always see if there's an "open" class for all the catchalls. Otherwise, remember that this is a test of your skill as a driver. There's no money in it, at least not locally. If you "cheat," who are you cheating?
Function before fashion.
'96 Contour SE
"Toss the Contour into a corner, and it's as easy to catch as a softball thrown by a preschooler." -Edmunds, 1998
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Originally posted by stingray454:
In reply to:
I still find that amazing, considering how few honest people there are around these days. It seems to be more of "its only illegal if you get caught" and "nice guys finish last" rather than an honor thing.
Stingray, this is not aimed at you but this kind of talk always makes me feel a little sad. Honasty and honor in the minority? Anybody really feel that is fun to win if you cheated..this should be a pole question.
Another pole question...is this attitude the "real Clinton legacy?"
1999 Amazon Green SVT Contour (#554/2760)
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."
-Soren Kierkegaard (as posted by Jato)
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Originally posted by Dan Nixon:
Originally posted by stingray454:
In reply to:
I still find that amazing, considering how few honest people there are around these days. It seems to be more of "its only illegal if you get caught" and "nice guys finish last" rather than an honor thing.
Stingray, this is not aimed at you but this kind of talk always makes me feel a little sad. Honasty and honor in the minority? Anybody really feel that is fun to win if you cheated..this should be a pole question.
Another pole question...is this attitude the "real Clinton legacy?"
In reply to:
It is not necessary that whilst I live
I live happily; but it is necessary
that so long as I live I should live
honourably. -Kant
Function before fashion.
'96 Contour SE
"Toss the Contour into a corner, and it's as easy to catch as a softball thrown by a preschooler." -Edmunds, 1998
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Thanks again for all your input - I've learned a lot here in one day  So I've decided to drop the Kumo Victo Racers, and instead just run 1 set of good street tires like the BFG g-force KDWs. With this, I also only need one set of the Focus SVT rims so that's a big savings too. I've also decided to drop the Wilwood brake kit, and just replace the stock rotors and pads with whatever the best I can find. Taking that stuff out of the parts list, I'm now down to $3500 in mods. Which is now sounding less crazy and more sensible, although its still more than the entire car is worth.
'96 Contour SE, 130k, traded 6/19/03 for: '03 Infiniti G35 Coupe , Diamond Graphite '02 Corvette Z06, Electron Blue Pic
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