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#466006 11/04/02 06:59 PM
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Can we really assign a cost to the design of a box.

Yes most manufactures would state.

#466007 11/04/02 07:27 PM
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"Carver does have a reputation of doing things different. In this case, he decided to sacrifice effeciency in order to have low bass and small enclosure size (much like nearly every car subwoofer on the market). He made up for the lack of effeciency with a lot of power (the 2500w are greatly exaggerated btw) as bench tests have shown a rating of about 500w.

Did you know that a top end amp manufacture accepted a challenge to try to identify their refereance 30k amplifier against a middle of the road car amplifier? The company would have been able to take home 45k if they could hear the difference. They failed miserably."


HAHAHAHA. Show me 1 sub that will play 18hz the way sunfire does. Every car sub maker on the market?? HAHAHAHA, thats a joke. i have NEVER EVER heard any car audio come close to home. NONE. I have perfect hearing, a 30k amp will dominate a 500 dollar car amp i guarentee it. Try speaking from experience, i have heard 80k speakers not including the rest of the system. The Sunfire plays bass deeper then the ws7, JL audio is a joke from what i heard too. I would never put that crap in a serious car setup.

sounds like to me you have never heard true bass.

#466008 11/04/02 07:36 PM
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Originally posted by APT CSVT:
Originally posted by contour se driver:
ive got 450 times 2 continuous at home ATI, car audio sucks nuts.


I've got 2x481w rms continuous at 20Hz plus 5x90w rms in my home - big deal. But I spend far more time in my car where it is far more challengine to design a good system.


What amp? I forgot to mention this is in 8 ohms, my speakers are 4 ohm, so how much is it now? Obvious you have some kind of receiver which isnt as high current. Same as your amp?

MUHAHAHAHAH.

Smile.

#466009 11/04/02 07:42 PM
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Originally posted by cthomp21:
Originally posted by TheGrimace:
I still contest that bridging will dirty up your signal. Feel free to argue but you can't win.


Hard to argue with someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.

Generally, running an amp in bridged mode will increase the THD and amount of heat generated. Will the increase in distortion be measurable by scientific instruments? Yes. Will the increase in distortion be detectable by human ears? No.

BTW, 99.99999% of signals will have some level of distortion in them. So, I guess we're all running "dirty" signals.



My ATI does sound a tick worse in bridged mode. But you didn't mention what amp you are speaking of. Mcintosh quotes no difference in bridge mode. As far as distortion goes about every amp amplifies the signal to a much higher level then it will cut the tops and bottoms off then do it agin. Why do you think there are stages?

#466010 11/04/02 08:38 PM
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Originally posted by contour se driver:
Originally posted by cthomp21:
Originally posted by TheGrimace:
I still contest that bridging will dirty up your signal. Feel free to argue but you can't win.


Hard to argue with someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.

Generally, running an amp in bridged mode will increase the THD and amount of heat generated. Will the increase in distortion be measurable by scientific instruments? Yes. Will the increase in distortion be detectable by human ears? No.

BTW, 99.99999% of signals will have some level of distortion in them. So, I guess we're all running "dirty" signals.



My ATI does sound a tick worse in bridged mode. But you didn't mention what amp you are speaking of. Mcintosh quotes no difference in bridge mode. As far as distortion goes about every amp amplifies the signal to a much higher level then it will cut the tops and bottoms off then do it agin. Why do you think there are stages?


First, you need to read up on what bridging actually is. You're confusing it with clipping (more hints you have no idea what you're talking about).

The amount of misinformation, half-truths, and blatant false information in your posts hurts my head so much that I need to go to sleep now...


1999 Ford Contour SVT #900/2760 (SOLD) 2005 Mazda 6s 2003.5 Mazdaspeed Protege 1998 Ford Ranger 4x4
#466011 11/04/02 09:55 PM
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Originally posted by contour se driver:

I have perfect hearing


Yeah? Well I have an 18 inch penis. Isn't dreamland great?!!


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#466012 11/04/02 10:22 PM
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In reply to:


HAHAHAHA. Show me 1 sub that will play 18hz the way sunfire does.


Adire Tumult
Adire Brahma
JL Audio W7
Resonant Engineering XXX
Blueprint 1803
Blueprint 1503
Aura 1808
Aura NRT 18-8
Seismic 8196
Cerwin Vega Stroker 12,15, and 18
Elemental Designs A-Series
SVS subs
Stryke AV15 and AV12
Stryke HE15
Stryke UE-15

The Tumult and UE-15 are both 15" drivers, meaning they have clost to 4x the cone area as the little Carver sub. The Sd (cone area) and Vd (volume of displacement) are two of the more important specs when it comes to figuring out the peak SPL at a given freq/power input. A Tumult can move approximately 6 times as much air as the Carver and handle more power....


In reply to:


Every car sub maker on the market?? HAHAHAHA, thats a joke. i have NEVER EVER heard any car audio come close to home. NONE.


There are 8" midbass speakers that will go flat to 18 hz in a car. You seem to be ignoring the effects of the vehicles transfer function. I'm not foolish enough to say all subs can outperform the Sunfire, but there are certainly a lot of subs that can.

Have you ever seen or listened to a Krell Master Reference Subwoofer? If you don't know about it, it is a 28,000 sub with dual 15 woofers. It just so happens to use a slightly worse version of the Stryke HE15 mentioned earlier. The Stryke has higher power handling, better basket, and quite a bit more excursion. While the Sunfire does well in head to head test with 1000.00 consumer subs, it simply gets outclassed by high end equipment and DIY subs.


In reply to:



I have perfect hearing, a 30k amp will dominate a 500 dollar car amp i guarentee it.



Define perfect hearing? You may be able to guarentee it, but I would take your guarentee with a grain of salt. Where do you live? If you are on the east coast, I bet Richard Clark (the amp challenge guy) would be glad to give you 10,000 if you can hear the differece between that 30k amp and a 400.00 car audio amp. The challenge is ongoing and no golden eared audiophool has won the challenge yet.

What is your guarentee, what are the ramifications of your guarentee when you fail miserably?

In reply to:


Try speaking from experience

How do you know my experience? Try speaking from your mouth rather than your ass, the breath from down there is killing us.

In reply to:


i have heard 80k speakers not including the rest of the system.

Well in that case, how can I sit here and argue with you... You listened to expensive speakers, you must be a real audio guru. I have listened to speakers costing 2x that, but considering that has nothing to do with the conversation, neither of us should give a flying fornication.

In reply to:


The Sunfire plays bass deeper then the ws7, JL audio is a joke from what i heard too. I would never put that crap in a serious car setup.


Which W7? What kind of box? In car or anechoic?

JL Audio is no joke. They may be overpriced, IMO, but there is no question they are among the top mfg in the business. In fact, I'm assuming your post has to be the joke to rile us up. The utter arrogance and ignorance displayed in your thread is beyond compare.

Try to stick to something you know, not something you read one time a few years ago.


"If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit" -Mitch Hedberg
#466013 11/04/02 10:29 PM
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Originally posted by contour se driver:
Originally posted by cthomp21:
Originally posted by TheGrimace:
I still contest that bridging will dirty up your signal. Feel free to argue but you can't win.


Hard to argue with someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.

Generally, running an amp in bridged mode will increase the THD and amount of heat generated. Will the increase in distortion be measurable by scientific instruments? Yes. Will the increase in distortion be detectable by human ears? No.

BTW, 99.99999% of signals will have some level of distortion in them. So, I guess we're all running "dirty" signals.



My ATI does sound a tick worse in bridged mode. But you didn't mention what amp you are speaking of. Mcintosh quotes no difference in bridge mode. As far as distortion goes about every amp amplifies the signal to a much higher level then it will cut the tops and bottoms off then do it agin. Why do you think there are stages?



I have no idea what you just said, but I can comment on McIntosh's technology. They use an autoformer on the output to make sure that you get full power with low impedance loads, without stressing the amp. Autoformers are pretty common in the proaudio scene, but relatively unused in the other audio fields.


"If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit" -Mitch Hedberg
#466014 11/04/02 10:31 PM
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Originally posted by contour se driver:
Originally posted by APT CSVT:
Originally posted by contour se driver:
ive got 450 times 2 continuous at home ATI, car audio sucks nuts.


I've got 2x481w rms continuous at 20Hz plus 5x90w rms in my home - big deal. But I spend far more time in my car where it is far more challengine to design a good system.


What amp? I forgot to mention this is in 8 ohms, my speakers are 4 ohm, so how much is it now? Obvious you have some kind of receiver which isnt as high current. Same as your amp?

MUHAHAHAHAH.

Smile.


He has a Samson amplifier. Not positive about the model number. His main point is no one cares that you have an overpriced ATI amp.


"If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit" -Mitch Hedberg
#466015 11/04/02 10:34 PM
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Originally posted by contour_phoenix_when:
Can we really assign a cost to the design of a box.

Yes most manufactures would state.


A typical box design for a sub would take very little time to design. It wouldn't add a great deal of cost because of that. Using advanced materials like solid surface counter top material or aluminum could add a great deal of cost.


"If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit" -Mitch Hedberg
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