|
|
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,469
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,469 |
Roger, I agree that oil starvation is real. And your explaination is plausible..infact I have had many posts (old archives) on the subject & personally emailed/talked to experts at Roush, SVE, Reinke, Mirko, Capaldi, Mumm, Bondurant..universal agreement that on the track 1) oil starvation is real and 2) baffeling the pan by itself does not eliminate the problem but 3) baffling + accusump does. The old posts by Horse relayed from Roush about head drainage problems was convincing and NOW we have Ford making a new baffeled pan and extra head drainage.
However, I did a long (it was up for months and back up) survey years ago on this forum and even checked with Mondeo.org & NECO. About forty percent lost motors similar to what you describe...hard right turn at high RPM. Clear cut oil starvation. Another 10-15% low oil possibly contibuted. But about 40+% were described as no turns prior, good oil level...no suggestion of oil stavation found..and I pushed the questioning because at that time I was baffeled..I though oil starvation was the only answer. But when Judge came out on the OEM damper company testing and the problems they found, I became a believer. Many cars may not have a problem with whip..but we have a crank that was shortened after the original design was laid down and simple aluminum bearings that are not well suited to whip, and a peak power near 7K RPM, something that has SVT Duratecs near redline alot more than most domestics.
So, I believe both are problems..and for those who do not race the car, the crank whip may be the bigger problem. and we have an easy solution, why take chances. You can underdrive individual accesories if you want, I will be but power gain is minimal..just good for accesories.
and how about this...Ford has actually addressed ALL of what I consider the big 3 Duratec problems..
extra head drainage
baffeled pan
DMD
ceramic H2o pump
I personally think we should all be doing the 3 easy ones....just to play it safe. And keep 6 quarts of quality synthetic in the sump. AND keep RPMs down a bit in the hard right handers unless you spring for accusump. I bet near nobody loses a motor who does all this. I am burned out on this subject..that all Ive got.
1999 Amazon Green SVT Contour (#554/2760)
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."
-Soren Kierkegaard (as posted by Jato)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,325
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,325 |
Ummm, one thing though - all the literature states that shorter cranks (of the same diameter / geometry) will be LESS prone to whip.
My thoughts on the DMD: I beleive it was a NVH improvement made possible by cost reductions from the new non-glued elastomer pullies. My 97 SE glued damper used to cost 140 dollars. The new "cheaper" non-DMD stock pulley was like 40. Ford probably figured out that for less than what they used to pay for a single mode they could get BMW-smoothness. Cut it in on the Mondeo first (which competes in a bimmer market) and role it out accross the fleet later. Quoting procyon's post: "There are DMDs now on a lot of Ford engines. I believe that all of the Modular 4.6,5.4, 6.8L engines have them now."
97 Contour SE MTX
K&N 3530, UR UDP, 19# Injectors, mystery mod, FMS wires, Fordchip.com chip, SVT: TB, Flywheel, clutch, exhaust
04 Grand Caravan SXT
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 299
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 299 |
The overall crank length,from the Porsche proto 2.5's ,was reduced by thinning the balance webs...not the ideal way to make a crank less prone to whip...I'm sure you agree....!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 344
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 344 |
Originally posted by Dan Nixon:
NOW we have Ford making a new baffeled pan
Dan, can you clarify what you mean by the "new baffled pan". In my reply to your question in the 3.0L Forum, I thought you were referring to the baffle which bolts to the bottom of the block. This was redesigned for 2001 for reduced aeration of oil off the crank from what I've heard.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 301
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 301 |
All this info has been really helpful, but we still don't have a price or location on a DMD. I would like to know where to get one, just for safety's sake. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,325
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,325 |
Yes - I agree and stand corrected.
97 Contour SE MTX
K&N 3530, UR UDP, 19# Injectors, mystery mod, FMS wires, Fordchip.com chip, SVT: TB, Flywheel, clutch, exhaust
04 Grand Caravan SXT
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,676
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,676 |
I'll tell y'all something:
I just bought a DMD from Terry a week ago and
a baffled oil pan from jiako out of our GB.
After reading those failed motor horror stories, I feel
a little safer.
I've always run 6quarts in my car, Ford used to tell me 5.5 or something. . .I guess that's how I've managed to miss oil starvation on my courageous turns at 5k+. . .knock wood.
Suneil
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 18
New CEG\'er
|
|
OP
New CEG\'er
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 18 |
How does a motor like that get through quality control? I mean if there was a problem with the motor shaking it's self apart how does that make it past the engineers? They must have been a collection of idiots. But I have asked questions like this about this car before. Is this just a "we don't care" thing? I don't think any of things are true. Maybe I just don't want to believe it's true. Whatever it is, I'm convinced the DMD is just there for NVH. Just my opinion though.
Roger
98 SVT E0, Black 3.0L, y- pipe, open air filter, ported lower intake manifold, Quaife diff. 220hp at the wheels through the stock exhaust and manifolds.
Blown motor, help on the way......
97 GTI VR6, Green lots of mods, 205 hp at the wheels
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 970
Veteran CEG\'er
|
|
Veteran CEG\'er
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 970 |
Originally posted by 3.0L SVT E0:
How does a motor like that get through quality control? I mean if there was a problem with the motor shaking it's self apart how does that make it past the engineers? They must have been a collection of idiots. But I have asked questions like this about this car before. Is this just a "we don't care" thing? I don't think any of things are true. Maybe I just don't want to believe it's true. Whatever it is, I'm convinced the DMD is just there for NVH. Just my opinion though.
Roger
It may be small consolation but, "Sh!t happens"
98 GL sport (V6 MTX)
The Durable Duratec? - (DMD, Metal impeller WaterPump, Synth & Stinky in the tranny)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 299
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 299 |
FWIW the 2.5 in USA is now a 'dead duck' to Ford.Its production is only for vehicles built in Europe,also funny how its only the SVT motors have this problem ...wonder why...don't se many,if any Std 2.5's with spun bearings or oil starvation issues.....higher CR's ?....greater load on crank??.....same pan ,same oil pump,same bearings,'selected' cranks(yeh right!)..same rods... 
|
|
|
|
|
