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#432467 09/17/02 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by ajdulina:
You don't get 24v from two 12v sorces. it still 12v, but now you have a higher amp flow. again, can fry the fan motor or worse the PCM. Contours have the reverse polarity protection circuit but why put it to the test?


I think we are getting a little confused here. There is only one power source in these cars, and it is a 12 volt source (roughly). It doesn't matter how many times you connect lines from that source to another component, its still only 12 volts.

If you had 2 12 volt sources, and they were in series, then you could have 24 volts, but our cars only have one source.


- Zack WANTED: T-Red HEATED Side Mirrors FOR SALE: 4 14" Alum Alloys and Nearly New Avid H4s Tires w/ Center Caps 2000 T-Red SVT 1995 LX V6 MTX (RIP)
#432468 09/18/02 08:09 PM
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Originally posted by 99MercMystLS25:
...I am sure it would be possible to turn on both low and high with a manual switch without affecting the PCM control.......What switch setup would be prefered, ...OR please suggest a switch setup.


Please tell me more....I've been thinking about this for 2 weeks.....Mystique runs hotter than I like in hot weather, slow traffic...when I'm traveling at highway speeds, with good air flow, the gauge shows R-M, but when I'm traveling slow, with poor air flow, the fan only kicks on when the gauge is at the L... ..

It appears that the thermostat attempts to keep the engine at one temperature, but the fan only kicks in at a considerably higher temperature. I would like to install a switch or thermostat that would induce the fan to operate at a temperature closer to the thermostat temperature. I'm leaning more toward a thermostat than a switch, but I'm leary about goofing up the PCM.

Thanks.


95 Contour Zetec, ATX (wrecked, sitting in the barn) 95 Mystique Zetec, MTX 2000 Taurus SEL 3.0L Duratec 1994 Crown Victoria LX 4.6 V8 1993 Chevy Silverado 4.3 V6
#432469 09/18/02 08:25 PM
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What I was refering to (the 24V to the fan) was if there was a direct connection from the battery to the power input on the fan motor and then the alternator kicked in and powered up the natural fan circut. Both the alternator and VBattery would be providing 12V, giving 24V.


Frank McCoy aka Mod-deth aka Mid Life Crisis aka SVT Doood aka mcgainer is a SCAM ARTIST Pre98 Zetec - Some Mods
#432470 09/19/02 12:00 AM
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Sleeper, I suggest you put down the pipe, and move along... nothing to see here....


Metal Thunder Dragon, AKA Matthew Blakeley Electronics Tech '99 Mercury Mystique LS - Loaded '96 Ford Explorer Sport - Standard '90 Ford Taurus L - Rusting silently in the back Iraq-Land of the lost!
#432471 09/19/02 12:23 AM
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bentlywarren, if that is your real name , I would be appy to explain.

When the ECU decides to turn on the fans, it does not do so directly, it can't handle the current draw of the fans. So what the ECU does is put a HI (12V) or a LOW (ground) on a wire running to a relay. This will either turn on the relay or turn off the relay. The relay is basically a switch that can handle higher current that is activated by a lower current. Note that voltage is not a factor here, simply current, I.E. the ECU can supply 12 volts, but not 5 Amps, however, a relay can handle as many amps as it is rated too, and it is independant to the current capacity of the activation signal (ECU in this case).

Hope I didnt loose you there.

To turn on the fan, you simplay have to active the relay, just like the ECU would. Now here's the catch: you can use the same type of signal the ECU uses, but you dont want your signal to go to the ECU, as you don't know what the circuitry looks like inside, and you may burn something up by putting an external signal on the line to the ECU (also keep in mind that it is irrelevant wehre you hook up your wire, it will go back to the ECU).

This is easily avoided by the use of a diode. This is a component that only allows current to flow in one direction, effectively preventing any voltage flow as well.

So you isolate the ECU output to the fan relay from your wire to activate the relay by placing the Diode in a certain manner (insert a year of school here) to allow the ECU signal AND your signal to BOTH activate the fan relay.

Now, logic will tell you that knowing there are two fan speeds, low and high, you dont want to have both relays acivate at the same time. The ECU won't, so why should you?

So what we will do in install a two way switch, and one position activates the low fan and the other position activates the High fan, and the middle is off.

Now this all sound fine and dandy, but what happens when say the ECU decides to turn on the high fan but you have the low fan on with your manual switch? (BTW, I dont care what ANYONE says, you will NOT get 24 volts )

So we must add one more component, and that is a transistor. A transistor is basicaly a switch. In this case, the switch would sense the ECU putting a signal on the line to turn on the high fan, and turn off your signal for low. This setup would require a few more components to allow for what I call the "ECU knows best" circuit that allows you to overide a low fan setting, but not a high fan setting, IE, if the ECU says high, then it goes high, and your switch is ignored. If you are high and the ECU says low, then we ignore the ECU, unles you turn off the switch, then the fan would do whatever the ECU says.

Simple, huh?

I could build something like this, and it is in fact my next project for the proto board. My KEM addon is going in the car tommorow, so I will let everyone know how that works out

I am basically making the lights flash longer, and adding a auto-locking feature when you put the car in gear (auto only, sorry SVT guys )


Metal Thunder Dragon, AKA Matthew Blakeley Electronics Tech '99 Mercury Mystique LS - Loaded '96 Ford Explorer Sport - Standard '90 Ford Taurus L - Rusting silently in the back Iraq-Land of the lost!
#432472 09/19/02 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by 99MercMystLS25:
Simple, huh?


Uh, yeah, right....my only question is how big a hammer do I need to install the diode? JK

Actually, I did follow the theory, but I don't have the technical skills to put one together. Thanks for the info...it sounds like that would be a good device to have on a car....

Thanks again


95 Contour Zetec, ATX (wrecked, sitting in the barn) 95 Mystique Zetec, MTX 2000 Taurus SEL 3.0L Duratec 1994 Crown Victoria LX 4.6 V8 1993 Chevy Silverado 4.3 V6
#432473 09/19/02 09:07 PM
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12 pound sledge is my prefered tool

If this works like I think it will, I would be able to make a few of these devices for people, as there seems to be some demand. But that's down the road a bit



Metal Thunder Dragon, AKA Matthew Blakeley Electronics Tech '99 Mercury Mystique LS - Loaded '96 Ford Explorer Sport - Standard '90 Ford Taurus L - Rusting silently in the back Iraq-Land of the lost!
#432474 01/16/03 10:17 PM
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Four months later:::

I found out that if I disconnect the wiring connector from the water temperature sensor, the cooling fan will run all of the time. I assume that low conductance when the plug is removed activates the fan. Here's my question. If I splice a switch into the wire going to the temperature sensor, could I turn the switch on or off, and make the fan run all of the time? Would I be messing something up electronically? I would only turn the switch off (turn the fan on) when the engine was tending to overheat.



95 Contour Zetec, ATX (wrecked, sitting in the barn) 95 Mystique Zetec, MTX 2000 Taurus SEL 3.0L Duratec 1994 Crown Victoria LX 4.6 V8 1993 Chevy Silverado 4.3 V6
#432475 01/17/03 01:22 AM
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I dont mean to sidetrack the thread, but someone wanted to know the names of DC-DC converters. They are: buck converter (high to low) and boost converter (low to high).


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#432476 01/17/03 03:25 AM
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my solution for real life situations:remove the a/c system (being done on my car very soon), now the a/c switch will just control the fans.


98.5 SVT 91 Escort GT (almost sold) 96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve) FS: SVT rear sway bar WTB: Very cheap beater CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
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