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#403228 01/30/02 02:20 PM
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Terry : No more big words....... wink


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Life begins at 170mph...until that point it is just boring.....
#403229 01/30/02 04:15 PM
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I dated a girl that was bifurcated. Not really. laugh


"If you're pushing crazy I'm all full up here."

{Black '96 Contour SE MTX w/ over 126k on the clock}
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#403230 01/30/02 05:25 PM
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The 3.0 lower I'm looking at is plastic with a central injector....seems a bit smoother than extrude hone to me...!!!!!


V6 MTX
'Don't p**s up my back then tell me it's raining!!!"
'Its only nuts & bolts!'
'If I build it,fix it,upgrade it or modify it...MAYBE they will come....!
Haines Motor Sports Inc,
Dealer for 'Quaife America' & 'Autotech Sport Tuning'
SOLE USA Dealer for the American Axle 'AUSSIE BAR'...
Get a Turbo for you Zetec from HMS Inc...by 'The Demon' ...www.DemonDynamics.co.uk
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#403231 01/30/02 08:21 PM
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terry is right. on the 01' 3L the LIM is plastic so is the upper with an oval port and centrally located injector.


jiako|98 svt silver|kkm true rev|18" Enkie RS5 wrapped w/falken GRB FK451 215/40|Mesh grill|
Sony headunit|Boston Acoutics (4)5X7|Memphis 1100 amp|(2) JL 12W3|KVR X drilled rotors|35% tint|2.25" True Duals w/ Magnaflows| kkm pedals|LSD|Fidnaza Flywheel|Centerforce Dual Friction Clutch|FMS wires|Konis/Eibach|ESP bushings and Mounts|75MM PRO FLOW|DMD|Aluminum shifter & E-brake handle|SAFC|HID's and a few more cc's 196.1 and 183.4
#403232 01/30/02 08:32 PM
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Does anyone know the port size of the SVT heads?


Speed kills, but it beats going slow!

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#403233 01/30/02 08:54 PM
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Any reason why Ford went to plastic??? Cost, weight, properties, etc....????


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#403234 01/30/02 08:58 PM
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Plastic does not conduct heat.....


Just call me Judge.
People suck.
Life begins at 170mph...until that point it is just boring.....
#403235 01/30/02 09:10 PM
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Yep, beats all the plastic spacers in the world eh Brian,this lower is great as its in two halves,3 ports a side and held together by the fuel rail, gives a huge port area,no secondries,no offset injector and a bolt pattern the same as the 2.5 what a tuning aid eh..!!!!so we hog out the upper to an oval to match the lower, up to the split wall in the long/short runner,size is no prob, as big as you can hog re gaskets...great stuff...!!!


V6 MTX
'Don't p**s up my back then tell me it's raining!!!"
'Its only nuts & bolts!'
'If I build it,fix it,upgrade it or modify it...MAYBE they will come....!
Haines Motor Sports Inc,
Dealer for 'Quaife America' & 'Autotech Sport Tuning'
SOLE USA Dealer for the American Axle 'AUSSIE BAR'...
Get a Turbo for you Zetec from HMS Inc...by 'The Demon' ...www.DemonDynamics.co.uk
..don't talk about it DO IT !!!
#403236 01/31/02 06:21 AM
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So if you use the oval lower IM then you lose the split port design. That means that there is less tendency to have the benefits of short/long intake runners which was supposed to optimize low rpm torqe and high rpm torque.

I guess I have some problems with the claim that the plastic manifolds are better.
Cheaper, hell yes! Better, not necessarily. In order for Ford to make an aluminum manifold perform as well as a plastic, they have to spend more money to alter the stock casting, i.e. extrude honing to make it smooth and wide enough.
With plastic, the longevity is much shorter. Durability can bite you in the butt when you least expect it. Lets not forget about all the cracking that accompanies even high-temp polymers that are subjected to long-term high-heat environments.

And why forget about extrude hone? I agree that the plastic manifolds are a bit smoother, and with the oval instead of split port you gain a bit more area.
However, a great man once said that you don't want to polish your intake passages too much since that would actually be detrimental to performance. Something about a static monolayer of gas that acts as a thermal barrier.....

And another thing. Plastic DOES transmit heat although that isn't the most relevant issue. In fact, ALL solids have roughly the same heat capacity which approaches 3*R where R is the ideal gas constant and 3*R = 24.9 J/K-mole
What does this tell you? It should tell you that if the volume (not density) of the plastic manifold is the same as the aluminum manifold then they will store roughly the same heat.
Now the aluminum WILL conduct heat faster internally than the plastic, but the whole engine warms up at the same rate. Therefore the plastic manifold is essentially always at the same operating temperature as the rest of the motor. Thus either material will have the same effect and will tend to radiate or transmit the heat they contain into the airstream.
This says that at operating temperature the plastic will be just as hot as the aluminum manifold was and the intake charge will still pick up heat.

So, is the "smoother" plastic actually better even though it has been reported that "too smooth" is not beneficial due to above mentioned reasons.

The plastic is less durable and is guaranteed to need replacement before the aluminum manifold.

The single oval design defeats the purpose of the split port design, and will likely NOT generate as much low rpm torque.

Don't forget that it is a heck of a lot easier to modify or widen out the aluminum manifolds to match the gasket size, or even wider, than it will be to modify the plastic manifolds.

My conclusion is to keep the split port design and widen the passages so that they flow the desired amount of air. This will retain all the benefits the original engineers designed into the engine plus enhancements.

It will be interesting to see the dyno of a fine tuned 3L using split port manifolds and a fine tuned 3L using oval port manifolds.
Although there is so much CONTRADICTORY evidence out there now, trials over time will sort it all out.

So, I have to end by saying, "I don't buy it" wink
but to each his own. Neither approach is wrong.
It's only wrong if you have an idea and don't try to make it work.

warmonger


You can call me anything you like as long as it's nice.(all lies accepted)
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#403237 01/31/02 12:30 PM
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Just passing on observations warmonger, no need to get fiesty ! There is always a better mousetrap and for one who seems hooked on a split port Vs oval I think you may want to revise,as we all do, the evidence.Re plastic maifolds, I dont see older Zetec plastic intakes cracking up do you !,there is nothing wrong with them,ok so you cant rework them but I think the number of 3.0 Taurus vehicles out there along with GM Northstar etc proves the case that plastic is a good alternative....take a look at the head of a 2.0 Cosworth,no split port intake just an oval...depends on what area of the rev band you want the power.Some go for bigger and high end flow,some for higher gas velocity at low end hence short/long runners...all the designs follow the basic rules but I dont think we should get too hung up on 'the best'...no such aninal in engineering,as well you know... wink


V6 MTX
'Don't p**s up my back then tell me it's raining!!!"
'Its only nuts & bolts!'
'If I build it,fix it,upgrade it or modify it...MAYBE they will come....!
Haines Motor Sports Inc,
Dealer for 'Quaife America' & 'Autotech Sport Tuning'
SOLE USA Dealer for the American Axle 'AUSSIE BAR'...
Get a Turbo for you Zetec from HMS Inc...by 'The Demon' ...www.DemonDynamics.co.uk
..don't talk about it DO IT !!!
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