Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums General General Aftermarket Support at CEG Lacking, 'Here's Why!'

I don't want no one to get offended by this POST because this is not the intention!!!

I guess you can call me an Assistant LEG WORKER in regards to this post!! The true patrions of this site, most already know of them, I could name a few but I hate to leave out anyone, have done so much in the name of performance for the 2.5 Duratech. Whether it's the knuckle busting, pain staking efforts to make a product work or the investment to provide one, Dozens have earnestly tried to push the Contour/Cougar into a whole new level. The SAD part is Aftermarket support here is very poor and I think many already know that. I for one am very passionate of my Tour' and I will never get rid of it, I may buy something else, but the SVT stays in the GARAGE and as such my passion has gone as far as efforts to find, seak for more aftermarket support/products as well as the many others here.
The purpose of this POST is that I have just read over the DMD Damper Post in the GB section and it's pretty sad that people are willing to save a buck or two with someone who has no real Foundation with CEG other than he might be able to get the Damper for supposedly $30 less than Terry is offering. The point, like Terry said, don't expect to see a whole lot of leg work going on here for aftermarket support if everyone is just out to SAVE A BUCK OR TWO, you know this aint 1-800 COLLECT!!! I'm gonna simply finish with this, You want to see more goodies in the goodie bag, MAMMA say's behave, you'll get more, just don't expect to stuff your hand in there when she's not looking, run to your buddies house and come back to see more!!!!

More EFFORT simply means more support, more support results in more goodies So please continue to support and buy from those within that make the EFFORT, just remember without them you wouldn't have alot of things you have now...Thinnk About It!

By the way Operation CNC Thottle Body is starting to look like a no go as I've only received probably less than 1% support from both CEG and NECO! It's to bad, I have intentions of working on so much more new products for the Contour/Cougar......Aloha and Mahalo, Ioane Micah

Amen

Well, a lot of things were hit on with this thread, I will try to give my opinion on all of them.

As for Contour and Cougar owners wanting to save a "buck or two", that has a lot to do with a few things. For starters, my experience has shown that the average Cougar/Contour owner is NOT a teenager, and has other bills to worry about. Typically we are not spending all of our minimum wage pay check on our cars. But the main thing would be the cost of aftermarket parts for the Contour/Cougar. Compare prices on things for our cars, to the majority of the import scene. That is even if the parts exist, which many do not. Let's take headers for an example. Currently there are two companies that make headers for our cars, MSDS and the Mustang ones (forgot name), and those go for $1500. The MSDS headers are the cheapest version out there, and they are still $600...for not the greatest quality headers. Not ripping on MSDS in any way, I have heard wonderful things about Marty's customer service and products. But it's not like these are SS, they will not last as long as a $600 set of headers should. Granted, a dual bank set of headers should be more money than a single bank header for a 4-cyl. But you can get SS headers for a good amount of import cars for under $200. And those will last forever. This is because there are only two companies making them, and only one selling them sucessfully. So as supply and demand dictates, the company making the product has complete control over the price. When more companies start making headers for our cars, you will see the price come way down. So in this instance, the average owner has two choices, spend the $600 on the headers, or hollow out the stock manifolds for free. Obviously the "gain" will not be the exact same, but for the cost, you can't beat it.

This is true with a lot of products for our cars, especially on the performance side of things. The less companies make for us, the higher the cost. Look at turbo kits, they are going to be $4000+...because it's not like there are ten companies making them for us. So they get to set the price.

As far as owner support being weak, I think some companies need to look at things from our perspective. I, for one, would NEVER commit to pay, let alone actually pay, for a product that is not currently out on the market. That is financial suicide. If a product is already out there, on Duratec engines, showing good quality, long life, and good results, then I will be willing to spend money on it. But I sure as hell would NEVER put a deposit on a product that is not ready to ship. I understand a company not wanting to produce a product that does not have any demand, but that is what product research is for. I can't think of any other time where a company wants people to pay for a product, BEFORE they decide to actually make said product. If a company wants to be sucessful, they need to put the time and money into researching a potential product. Produce the product in limited quantinies, market it, test it, and sell it. If they sell quickly, and feedback is positive, then they start mass producing the product. That is how normal companies make products, they take the chance, not the consumer. I sure as hell would not walk into a shoe store and hand them $50 in hopes that they make a shoe that I will like....that is stupid. It's up to Nike to take a chance on a product. Sure they will lose sometimes, and a product will not sell, but that is business.

The demand for aftermarket products is simply not that strong for the Cougar/Contour right now, and I don't think it ever will be for the Contour. I had no idea that Ford even made an SVT version of the Contour until last year, and when I found it out, my first thought was "why the hell would they waste their time?" Of course now I know, and I am glad they did. But from an "outsiders" point of view, it's not like the Contour would be on the top of my list for cars to modify. Now the Cougar has a chance because of it's look, it is designed to fight the import cars...with looks alone mind you. Performance is obviously weaker than that of the Contour, that's why we are always trying to get our hands on SVT parts.

Give it another year, when the Cougars start coming back in from leases, and they start selling used...really cheap. Then teenagers will start scarfing them up left and right, so the demand for aftermarket products will increase, dramatically. Look at the first gen Eclipse, the aftermarket was not that strong for it up until 98 or so, four years after the generation change. By then, first gen Eclipses were selling used, cheap. That was one of the reasons I traded mine in on my Cougar, because the aftermarket was so weak, that I didn't want to wait any longer, I figured that four years had passed since they changed the style, so I assumed the aftermarket would never pick up. So I bought a Cougar, now Alanis...that is ironic.

The percentage of Cougar and Contour owners, who want aftermarket products, compared to owners who do not...is very small. Now take that small percentage of owners who do want aftermarket products, and get the percentage of those who can, or are willing, to spend a ton of money on their Cougar/Contour, for aftermarket products. Now the percentage is even smaller. Over the next year, the demand will increase due to more and more younger people buying them. And let's face facts, it's the demand from the "Fast and Furious" teenagers who really push the demand for aftermarket performance and cosmetic products for cars. Give it a year, the demand will increase, and the products will follow...and the prices will begin to fall. I predict that we will be able to buy a set of SS headers for the Duratec for $300-$400, in a year and a half.

Of course I could be totally off base, it's not like it would be the first time. ie. Trading an Eclipse in for a Cougar because there was no aftermarket for the Eclipse.

HOOOOOOOOO Let me take a breather!!!!

You can't compare NIKE to my company nore any others here. I understand your point, but you don't have the right perspective on this. Most products that have come out for any vehicle was produced by a large manufacter, other companies leached off of there success to make similar ones and so the story goes!
If you think that a small company like mine will just cough up around $5000 for production of a Throttle Body, which is around what it's gonna cost me, in a market with unstable support, you must be CRAZY!!! Now as far as proof, there is more than enough proof that optimizing the stock TB produces positive gains, slapping on a 65mm Mustang TB with proper mods also results in good gains and anyway it's not as if we need a rocket scientist to figure that more air in results in more hp/tq, I mean that is why you put a open element Filter or a Larger MAF. If it works on most other cars that have one available, that's a pretty good record of it's success on just about any vehicle when properly used. As an example the same TB for the SOHC Neon resulted in 5 more hp @wheels. This Discussion is Directed not at my Throttle Body but at the overall stability of the Aftermarket Support here. In any case this is to make aware to Contour Enthusiast of probably what many of those that live and breath on this site work so hard to do, FEEL!

Well, I am not talking about your product or your company directly anyway. You are not the first company to approach the CEG or NECO with a potential product, and most of the ones before you have all asked the same thing, either commit to spending money, or actually put a deposit on a product that is not being currently produced.

I am not knocking you or your company, or any other company for that matter. I for one, am happy that companies are looking our direction, and possibly making more products for our cars. This does two things, the obvious being that more products are going to possibly me produced for us. Secondly, more companies making products for us means that even more companies will jump on the wagon, and make even more products. So we will not be limited to one or two companies per item. Thus, lowering the costs we would have to spend. As in the case I mentioned with the headers. If ten companies made headers for our cars, the prices would be lower.

But since you bring it up.. You make a few more points. Again, this is coming from my perspective only, I do not speak for any other Cougar owner, or any Contour owner. But you said it yourself, as far as a TB goes, we have other options that have been proven to work. Why would I commit to spending money on one that is not currently on the market? If I have other choices, then I could just go with one of them. Secondly, you answered your own question, kind of. You already know that your TB would show gains on the Duratec engine. And you can see for yourself that MSDS makes good money off of Cougar and Contour owners. So you can take the chance, knowing that there is a market for a good TB. Ask Marty himself, I am sure he would provide you with the numbers you would need to go into production.

Again, I am just speaking from the perspective of someone who does not want to drop thousands of dollars on my car, if I have other options. I would love to get some stronger performance out of my car, and I know that an intake/header/exhaust set up will net me around 30hp right off the bat. If I were to add SVT upper/lower, and a larger TB, I would gain even more. But right now that would cost me a few thousand if I installed everything myself. I am currently not ready or willing to do that. When the prices come down, then I will be all over it. If the prices never come down, and the aftermarket never picks up, then the Cougar will go in lew of another import, where I know I can modify it for a lot less, and get more out of my mods.

I completly understand your stance, and I know where you are coming from. You don't want to drop $5k into an item, not knowing if you will make the money back. I mentioned this to you before, on the NECO boards, that I just don't want you to think that there is no interest in your product just because people are not willing to commit to spending money, or place a deposit on a product that is not currently out. I for one, would be very interested in a TB that would net me a few extra HP with other intake/exhaust mods. As long as the price is not more than any of my current options. But I can not commit to spending money on something.

Personally, I hope you do produce the TB, and I hope that you have the support that you need to make a good profit. This would not only benifit you, but it would also benifit all Cougar and Contour owners as well.

I was just tossing out some other thoughts, that's all.

Boy that's some writing

I got'ya

This is risk vs. reward; all companies have to deal with it, not just yours. The company I work for, who shall remain nameless, spent millions opening data centers which to this day sit empty because the demand wasn't there.

They made a calculated decision to open data centers based on projected demand; the demand wasn't there, they lost money. Had the demand been there, they stood to make out quite nicely.

If you want to make money, you have to take a risk; that's part of running a business. If taking risks isn't for you, I respectfully suggest that running a business isn't what you really want to be doing.

Brian

Seems we have two different ideas here:
1) There is a group of Contour owners that accept we have little or no aftermarket support, and are willing to prime the pump from time to time. I don't mind the risk for the potential long term reward .. I can afford it, now.
2) There are those who would welcome aftermarket products, but can't afford to pay the extra dollars needed for small companies to do some R&D. I have been, and will be again, in this position.
However, if I am not mistaken, the original post refers to people saving money on established products by going outside of our community.
I have been away from the board CEG for a few months, but it seems to me that most of the "mechanical" forums always contains a post like " Terry, what about..." or something similar to one of the guys that is willing to experiment from time to time. I am not here to blow smoke up anybodys ... anyway, the damper item is a good example .. you want Terry and the others to be available, show'em a little loyalty. jj

I think that there is good points all around. All im going to say after reading them looooooong posts.

Someone couldn't help but let everything off there shoulder (some damn long posts)

Anyway this is not to degrade any individual or there loyalty, this is nothing to do with R&D, what this has to do with is the Contour community is made up of a elite group of people that strive to find/create new performance products for our cars, with out them we wouldn't have many things. Now if a good % of people don't support these the idea of bringing new and fresh products will slowly diminish! In the case of the DMD with Terry, the funny part is alot of people will run for the smallest dollar, knowing well that that person probably will not have any intention of any future R&D/Design/Technical Advise on our cars, but when they need help they run back to the main source.

The problem here is a large % of CEG'ers grab as much advise (which this site is for anyhow) and run to other outside sources to save a buck or two and leave Mr. Advise high and dry to continue providing such a service and yet have little intention of supporting it. The idea is to make people aware so that the performance program here doesn't end up going South, I for one am slowly losing a desire to seak/produce new products as I have received very little support!!!!