Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums Modifications General Mods A better, more-refined list..

I don't want to quote the whole message, so I'll post the important bits and try to respond... here goes... (deep breath)



All of that R&D could be done by the time I begin. If not, a number of the problems above can be solved with a little basic mathematics (that I haven't done yet; don't ask. :))



I know, I know... I realize that a little (*cough*) internal build-up is required and I did post the list ahead of some serious reading... so I was (to say the least) "unaware" of parts such as bearings and girdles as parts to be strengthened. To my credit (I hope, anyway) I was aware that the crank, rods, pistons, oiling and cooling needed to be 'beefed up.'



I have two spare MTX75s and a CD4E that I play with (junkyards are a great resource for parts).

I've got a few books that I've got my nose in regarding these transmissions specifically and a few 'in-general' books on transmissions/transaxles also... Needless to say, I like to arm myself with all of the information I can get my hands on before I dabble... and I'm prepared to handle the unexpected problems should there be any.



Driveshaft? I thought those were only applicable to RWD cars. Am I mistaken?

Rollcage? 500HP? Just from a 3L/turbo and a new intake/exhaust?

Anyways... on the pricetag, I'm expecting about $12k (minus wheels/tires/suspension and other little things). I'm going on about $8K saved now, so it won't be long.. I just hope Hightower's TC will be available for tinkering and that others will be doing the same things ahead of me...



Well... like I said... I'm doing what I see as the most I can... I'm reading, talking, listening, etc. to the pros and hopefully that information and a little experience with a 2.5L Duratec and MTX-75/CD4E teardown and rebuild will be enough to get me 'over the speedbumps.'

No, I'm not a 'rich man of leisure who loves his Tour', but I do have a means and an end.



1) I'm looking at that (trading for a CSVT). I'll really miss the grille and those sharp hood lines, though.

2/3) I'm doing the intake/exhaust no matter what route I go; what I do with them is the only variable. From what I know, a 'bulldog box' and LSD goes without saying in a high-HP application. I've had problems with wheel-hop and I'm (mostly) stock!

4) Strengthened drive/half-shafts are something I thought were unavailable and I don't know of any way to get a custom job done. Driveshafts.com huh?

5) SHO trimetal bearings is another something I was unaware of. On the damper, the latest I've heard is that the Cougar's "dual-mode" damper is preferable. Rods and pistons are another something that goes without saying, but at 8.5:1? Is that kind of a drop really neccesary for 6-8psi (have I mentioned I have no turbo experience/knowledge? :))? The Accusump is something I've been looking at since I saw it in the BAT catalog and the Apexi S-AFC I think still isn't being used yet.. is it?

6/7) Turbo w/ intercooler is the route I'm going and if I didn't do all or part of this myself, I was hoping to hand it to Mr. Haines since his 'shop' is closer than I'd hoped.

Well, again... Thanks. I don't know what I'd do without CEG. The majority of the engineers and mechanics I've spoken with don't take the Contour seriously (understandably) and my 'car buff' friends and family don't really have the know-how or interest to assist me with something like this.

Hope this wasn't too long,
.RMk..

"Driveshaft? I thought those were only applicable to RWD cars. Am I mistaken?"

Sorry, I ment half shafts, the front axles. a company called Driveshafts.com or something similar to that name supposedly will make them for $600 IIRC. Stock driveshafts will probably not last long at 400+ HP.


Rollcage? 500HP? Just from a 3L/turbo and a new intake/exhaust?.

Yes, you will be putting lots of stress on the chassis, as FWD is not optimal at putting down this kind of power. I would expect alot of flex on a hard launch. Subframe connectors + STBs front & rear, along with proper motor mouts would be a minimum I think. A roll cage is even more stiffness but big bux. 500HP, yes. With the 2.5L Duratec & built bottom but little breathing work making 450 HP in Dutweillers hands, headwork on the 2.5L should be worth 500-550HP. A 3L may make 20% more, or 600-650HP if the bottom could hold it!!! Thats why (in my vary limited oppinion) I say stay 2.5L for turbo, the block should be stronger in some respects (its the same block but smaller bores = more metal surrounding them. It will make all the power you will want - then some.

"SHO trimetal bearings is another something I was unaware of. On the
damper, the latest I've heard is that the Cougar's "dual-mode" damper is
preferable. Rods and pistons are another something that goes without saying,
but at 8.5:1? Is that kind of a drop really neccesary for 6-8psi (have I
mentioned I have no turbo experience/knowledge? )"

Cougar damper probably will work for the crank harmonics issue (I'm looking into this) but for the high RPM work the setup would be capable of, the FISHER damper with its underdrive would be desireable as it also will prevent the premature failure that your 8000RPM built Duratec will cause. The SHO V8 bearings fit the 2.5L Duratec and while expensive (about $80 each x 6) will along with the better damper & some crank prep improve chances that you will not break a crank or spin bearings. Enhancements to the crank girdle itself may be desireable (talk to Terry H about what he can do here). Crank whip is a real problem I think. If going to forged pistons, most agree around 8.5:1 optimal for best boost tolerance vs off boost power.

I suggest calling Terry if you are REALLY serious here as I am only guessing based on info I have learned here over the last 2 years. He is involved with a super turbo 2.5L Duratec project already (with up to 10,000RPM capability, titanium rods & God knows how much power capability). BIG bux but I believe doable. And be sure you want to do this with a Contour. I love my SVT but a FWD family car is not even close to the optimal starting platform. Tweaking an SVT to 220-240HP with bolt ons + some suspension upgrades I think makes "some" sense. Thats what I am doing & I will be out probably 3K in mods but OK, I bought the car for 18.4K so for say 21.5K I have a nice allaround machine even if I do take a resale hit. But over 10-20K in mod money down the drain at resale is too rich for my blood. Now a nice used M3 for 25K and a 5K supercharger making 350+ HP would absolutely rock. Would put all that power down beautifully, stock chassis, tranny, brakes would be OK & a better chance of resale.

Anyway, hope this info is useful.

You are VERY correct on those driveshafts... Lets just say a nicley built(but not even topped out) 2.5L N/A duratec has NO problem at all stripping every spline off the the driveshafts.... thats if they dont simply twist... Ive seen it. Our drive shafts are good for MAYBE 280hp in my guess.... even the hub/spindle strips.... lots of trouble in our driveline. They made our driveline to handle 170hp... and then later 200hp... Knowing ford cost cutting i seriously doubt they were overengineered for a car that was never really intended as a power house... Now... if mustangs and camerobirds were droping driveshafts with a 50% increase in hp it would affect sales... that same problem on a contique or cougar would not even come close to affecting sales.

Get a smashed Ford Escape/Mazda Tribute with the 2WD V6. This will give you a nice 3L and the beefiest CD4E around. Then, send the tranny and torque convertor to LevelTen, and let them have their way with it. Add PhantomGrip, and hollow halfshafts.

The 3L can get a good treatment with low comp pistons, rods, and maybe a custom crank. If you're getting custom crank and rods, you might as well stroke it out to ~3.4L. Keep the stock cams, or use SVT ones with the turbo. No need for custom ones.

Get the 2000 SVT upper and lower intake, 65mm TB, 80mm Ford F150 MAF (no need for adjustable) and a nice, big K&N conical.

24Lbs Injectors, bigger fuel pump.

With the turbo kit, you can just use gutted pre-cats. After the turbo, high-flow (or no) cat with high flow catback.

You will need to keep the stock-ish Ford PCM for the tranny, but control the air/fuel with an Apex'i S-AFC. Control the timing with the ITC. Custom burn chip with only changes to the IMRC control code, and better tranny shifts.

That's it.

I had just finished my reply and the computer rebooted (all by itself!) before I could hit 'Submit.' I LOVE Microsoft... don't you?

Anyway... what we're looking at here, then, is what we think will be a torque-crazy, 600 HP racing machine that isn't suitable for everyday driving duties.

In that case, with the emphasis on torque, what would you do if you had the following to start off with:

1 2001 Ford Taurus engine
1 CSVT engines
1 CSVT MTX75
1 99 Contour SE MTX75
1 98 Contour SE CD4E
1 Complete 2000 Mercury Mystique
Lots of other CSVT parts
$8000 to work with

I'm only looking to get enough HP/TQ to get me a 5.? second or less 0-60 and a 13.? second 1/4. Seems reasonable.

.RMk..

Minor Points:
1) I've heard there are some problems with the Apex'i AFC.

2) I've been thinking about trading in the Mystique for a CSVT. I just found a black, spoiler-less E1 with 16k miles for 13k. Good deal, I think.

Questions:
1) How do we know that the Escape/Tribute CD4E is any stronger than ours?

2) What can LevelTen do for the CD4E?

3) Assuming I trade the Mystique for a CSVT, which is better, Quaife ($600) or PhantomGrip ($300)?

4) Where on Earth do I get hollow half-shafts?

5) Boring it up to 3.4L sounds good. Is that the limit (with durability as a first concern)?

.RMk..

What kind of problems? I have one. I haven't tuned it yet so I am interested to hear if there will be anything unexpected.

Points:
1. No problems, just that it's never been done before. Give Keyser some time to tune his.
2. CSVT is another ball of wax. Why spend money on another car and start this dream cycle over? And payment cycle over?

Questions:
1. If you look at the design of the newer revs of the CD4E in the Escape, and read what changes have taken place. And, check out Kenne Bell's Escape putting 280HP to the ground through a stock Escape CD4E.
2. LevelTen will make it more bullet-proof and improve shift transitions.
3. Quaife for MTX, PhantomGrip for ATX.
4. Get them made.
5. Making a 3.0L into a 3.4L would not involve cutting the block. Since you might be making a custom crank and con rods, you might as well spec them to have the stroke increased. (This is what is involved with a stroker kit)

Keep the Mystique.

This certainly is an effective way to go through a thread... I like it. Anyway...

P1) I should have said 'complications' or confusion, having to do with the wiring last I heard. Now that I've done a more recent search, I see that it's been installed in a couple of Contours already.
P2) The 'dream cycle' hasn't begun yet, and starting the 'payment cycle' again isn't exactly what'd happen. My loan is down to $9500. I can buy a CSVT for 13k. If I can sell my Mystique for local market/dealer value, there's a good chance I can pay off the loan and put up a good size down payment on the CSVT to drop it back to 9K or so. Not to mention the ideal situation of being able to revert it to stock and sell the majority of my CSVT parts that I have lying around, since the duplicates I'll have (rear bumper, skirts, runners, TB, etc., etc.) won't be needed. Thing is, I just see the CSVT as a much better platform for this kind of monster project, since it's both easier and cheaper to build a strong MTX (I could probably do it myself) than a strong ATX and since it's such a bear to convert from MTX to ATX, well...

Q1) Back to the search engines, then...
Q2) Cost? Remember, I can make money by buying a CSVT (seriously) and working on one of the three MTX-75s I'd then have rather than keeping my Mystique and building up the CD4E.
Q3) That's what I thought. The PhantomGrip is available for MTX or ATX, but I suppose the price differential between it and the Quaife indicates a quality differential. (Sorry, it was too easy. :))
Q4) By whom?
Q5) I didn't know (slaps self on forehead again) that you could increase displacement by upping the stroke of the crank. Inter'sting..

.RMk..

Q4. Contact Rob Green at Axle King http://www.axleking.com . Tell him they are the same shafts for the Cougar.

Q5. Bigger stroke on the crank, and shorter rods to keep it from pushing the pistons into the head.