Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums General Pics and Videos a few pics of my Mustang

thanks for the replies. i swapped to the 93 style intakes because they are extrude honed and they were cheap. and i agree non functional hoods are dumb but a flying truck tire tore up my stocker and my friend was selling the cowl cheap.
ive never dynoed it but i ran a 14.9 at 102 with a kn and timing at 14 an some nitto DR.
below are all the mods.
K&N Filter
3:73 Gears
Mac Equal Length Headers
Off Road H-Pipe
Flows w/ 2 1/2 Mac Tailpipes
1.7 Cobra Roller R
Cold Air Intake
Polished 93 Style Valve Covers
extrude honed 93 style intakes
March Underdrive Crank Pully
Eibach Sportline Springs
Energy Bushings
Formula gp struts and shocks
Hurst Shifter

14.9 @ 102 on DRs? DAmn dude, did you stall when you tried to launch? 3 sec. 60'? Yikes.

13.9 would be more like it, and even that, on DRs, you ought to be running mid-low 13s w/ a 102 trap speed and DRs.

John

Actually, the factory system does quite well for its intended usage (which is obviously not competition) but what is wrong with the mounting points? Sure a non-parallel upper arm design is bad for maximum performance, but what does that have to do w/ the mounts?



Why? because you get to redefine kinematics? what are you gonna call it? Reactive Kinematics? The problem is, is that the fact that it doesn't bind any more (probably less than most TA's) than a TA, has nothing to do with what I say, but with the suspension geometry.



Ok, I got a few issues w/ this one.

1. The Steeda 5-link was not designed or available at the time the "10L Boss" was put together.

2. It is a modified Griggs TA that was used. (not a MM, hmmm :D)

3. I am well aware of the car in question, I walk by it at least 6 times a day at work.

4. The Steeda 5-link was in fact designed by two current Ford chassis engineers (one predominantly, but I know both of them) and the design was sold to Steeda. This is the source of Mr. Bassen's "REPUCAPB" comments.

5. The "10L Boss" was never intended to be a real road race car, but a drag strip concentrated machine, hence the strong leaning to drag racing setup on the suspension.



The Steeda setup is pretty new on the scene, but is gaining ground fast. Thanks in part to all those folks who *legally* do very well in American Sedan in the SCCA.
I still think you have some real confusion about what the Steeda setup does to the rear suspension geometry. You see the stock geometry is non-parallel, and is therefore designed to bind as suspension travle increases; BUT the steeda setup, has PARALLEL upper control arms (the key point of the whole system) which have NO bind in them whatsoever, even under full jounce and full rebound. Griggs and MM have found an adequate solution to the problem, but not ideal, and certainly no better than steeda's, IMHO.



Umm, ok. yes Camaro does use a TA setup, big deal, Camaro is in its final year of production (I hope it comes back). But the Corvette comment put you right on front seat of the short bus, and I won't even dignify it with the explanation of the independant rear suspension of the C5 Corvette.



Exactly!!! Maybe you should listen to your own advice. The Steeda 5-link changes the stock Mustang suspensio geometry in the single most significant way possible, and still retain the 4-link configuration. The steeda setup is far more like a "full race" 4-link than the stock geometry.


svtfan, please go back and read the thread Steve linked over at corner-carvers.com it should explain a whole lot to you (you obviously didn't read any of it) it will also explain why all three, the griggs, MM and Steeda setups, are all legal for American Sedan.

davidavid,

The car really looks pretty good. though, you may want to work on your drag racing technique a bit, 14.9 seems a bit slow for what you have done, unless there is some extenuating circumstance I am unaware of. good luck! btw, why all the Cobra badging on your GT? don't you get crap from people for it?

oh, and one last thing for svtfan,
it sounds like you have a pretty cool Mom, I am VERY partial to Cobras and not just because I own one

Nice times... I plan to run when the tracks open again. I shifted to high and had badly fouled plugs... I should be running 103mph+ too. 14.9.. Wow that should be lower. What where your 60's? Mine were 2.203 with not Full WOT with my Radial T/A 225/60/15's @22psi...

Thanks I do have a really cool mom. She also has a 318is, and my dad has a mix of 65 Shelbys and road race Falcons as well.

You are right, I meant to say Trans Am not Corvette, Im very aware that the Corvette has been using IRS since around 63? Honest mistake. I deserve the short bus coment. LOL

I agree the stock set up is more than most people would ever use. Im just stating that there is a better mouse trap. Hell there is tons better than a tri link set up as well. Just because somthing was designed by a Ford engineer doesnt make it good. Hell Ford made the Aspire. You keep telling me that Steeda stuff is good due to that it was designed by Ford engineers.

All I was trying to state was that the quad is not the best way to go. You have a different opinion.

MM Ta was not available at the time the "Boss" was built!! Uhhhh, why didnt they use the Steeda? Same reason, it wasnt around.

I didnt say that the Steeda was illegal for A sedan, I said I wasnt sure.

You are wrong that the MM and Griggs set ups can be used for A-Sedan and everyone on that thread who thinks its legal is wrong . You should read the thread you are refering me too.
Pick-up points on the rear axle housing may be relocated. The original number of mounting points must be maintained. No other relocation or reinforcement of any suspension component or mounting point is permitted.

The MM and Griggs remove the upper control arms for there systems. If you leave them on to be legal, you are not using there system the way it should be intended.The original number of mounting points must be maintained. I belive you need to go back and read it yourself.

Like I said earlier. Everyone is going to have their own opinion on what suspension is best. I honestly cant say I have driven a car with the Steeda system ( I would love to if I get a chance, I would be the first to say it rocks if it does) I never said that it sucked. I only stated that they were sugar coating a poorly factory designed system.
I have driven at least 2 cars with the full Griggs treatment, and 1 or 2 more with lesser Griggs mods.( I have even had Griggs parts on a few of my Mustangs) I have also driven at least 4 MM equipped cars and had a fully MM equipped car myself. How many have you had or driven to come to your conclusions?????? Im not an engineer, nor am I a professional race car driver. I am using my own personal experience with a product to come to my own conclusions. I have driven on the track more times with more cars than I can remember in my 28 yrs. I deffinately have some idea what works and doesn't, or maybe I don't??


Davidavid, I like the cowl hood, and it is functional. It will really help disapate underhood heat to help keep the engine cool. Plus its lighter!!!

Who cares if you have a Cobra or not? I think the Cobra snake is a great looking emblem, and the average person would surely mistake your car for a Cobra.

My understanding is that the MM and Griggs torque arms are legal in AS because they are considered "traction aids" and not as actual control arms, and to get around the not removing stock control arms rules, you look at the bushing material choice rule, which states any bushing material is legal, so you then choose something like pipe insulation as your bushing material on the control arms you would normally remove, so they are made a non-factor, for the same reason the Steeda "5-link" is legal.

I really do think you are hung up on what hte Steeda actually does, it is a PARALLEL upper control arm setup, compared to the stock NON-PARALLEL upper control arm setup. The entire reason the stock suspension has bind in it is because the upper arms are a converging design (allows Ford to skip out on a panhard or a watts from the factory, as well as progressively restricting excessive bump travel, fine for stock, but bad for max handling) The steeda has PARALLEL upper arms, and therefore, no bind at all, and for that reason, it requires a panhard bar (or watts) which is included in the kit (very nice adjustable panhard too)

the steeda is no more of a "Band-Aid" than either the griggs or MM TA/PB setup, if you want a band-aid approach, look to Saleen or Steeda's other stuff.

I agree that everyone is going to come to their own conclusion about what they like best, be it a TQ arm or a real 4-link setup (steeda considers the panhard to be the 5th link, hence the name) or whatever (honestly, a TQ arm isn't really a 3-link, a 3-link is a lot more like a 4-link than a TA setup)
My entire point is, that the Steeda is light years better than stock, and no longer has the problems associated w/ the stock "quadra-bind" (patent pending) suspension, and is at least as good as, if not better than a TQ arm from either MM or griggs.

btw, where in Cali are you? I grew up in Santa Rosa, and only moved away so I could come work at Ford (I hate Michigan)

I grew up in near Mammoth lakes, and went to school in San Luis. My parents liked it so much they moved there as well. I now live in the South bay ie. Hermosa beach, Redondo, Manhattan area. Its so sweet. My father heads up the sales dept at XKs Unlimited in San Luis Obispo. They are one of the largest Jag, and brit car parts dealers/restoration shops in the world. They are also a Shelby Cobra dealer. I worked there as a welder/restorer through school. I recieved 6 welding certs why I was working and going to school. I also built some roll cages etc through school. I also built Arcotti Shapiros 5.0 Mustang. He runs at Sears Point alot. Its usually the fastest car on the track (alot had to do with him, hes F-N crazy) It was the White 89. Finished school and didnt know what to do so I moved to Socal to work. I work in front of the Cosworth engineering complex in Torrance at a shop that builds UV curing systems for the Medical device industry and Nasa,TRW, Boeing etc. SoCal rocks. I was up your way for the Diskon show in San Jose. I belive you are even farther north...burrr. Too Cold for me. It was really cold when I was there, and it was in Oct. My girlfriends sister lives there and works for a firewall company, some computer crap.

I understand what you are saying about the upper control arms in A-sedan. I ran a worn out pair of stock rubber bushings forever on mine with the Global West lowers (spherical bearings on one end, and delren on the other). It actually worked quite well but not as good as totally removing them. The TA set up I ran worked wonders. I was stating that if you leave them, you defeat the purpose of their design. I know you can pretty much stick cotton balls in the uppers and render them useless. I was saying that the true Griggs and MM set up is supposed to eliminate them, making the TRUE setup not legal.

Have you driven any Griggs, MM, or Steeda cars. Does the Steeda handle better in your opinion? And if you did was it on the track? Is the quality better then the MM? Like I said, I would love to drive a car with the Steeda set up, so I can give an honest opinion myself. I have driven cars with just springs and have smoked guys with full race set ups. So until I drive it myself I cant come to a real conclusion. Im not doubting your knowlege of suspension, I just feel you really need to drive cars with the various suspensions to come to a real conclusion.

The past offerings from Steeda have been pretty weak, so I still have a bad taste in my mouth. Just take a look at their subframe conectors, etc.

Do you currently own a Mustang? I don't, but would like to get another in the near future. Maybe somthing brand new or a Fox chassis coupe (ex-chp car).

Rara,
There you go again with your incessant "Saleen bashing." :rolleyes:

I'm surprised no one has put forth Kenny Brown's name into this discussion.

After all, well before Steeda (Dario Orlando), Griggs (Bruce Griggs) or Maximum Motorsports (Paul Brown; no relation I assume) there was Kenny Brown. He developed many of the suspension components for the 1987 Escort Endurance champion Saleen Mustangs before he started his own separate company.

There ain't much to be said about KB after this infamous thread...

For what it's worth, although most of the stuff isn't available yet, KB's new club-racer stuff (tubular front K-member, revisted IRS subframe, etc.) is very promising.

Steve,
Unfortunately I was unable to digest that thread on Corner Carvers because it was either completely out of context or I simply couldn't fathom what exactly was the point of it all.

Who the hell is Brian Provost?!?

From what I could decipher he sounds like someone with a major stick... er... torque arm crammed up his posterior.

I find it rather amusing that late model Mustang suspension components can generate such emotionally vitriolic responses from those individuals who have embraced certain design philosophies.
It is comparable to the perennial Ford vs. Chevy debate.