|
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,042
Moderator
|
OP
Moderator
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,042 |
Originally posted by Sandman333:
Depends on the radar gun he used. If it was Lidar, he can get each vehicle independantly quite easy. That may also explain why none of your radar detectors went off. If he did that, he'd clock the bikes doing 140+ and given them a separate ticket, not 100 in a 55 to ALL 4 of us. either way, if he has you on tape, you are screwed. They could always drop the speeding charges and convict all of you on drag racing and reckless driving charges. You mean they can charge us with MORE serious offenses if we decide to fight it? That'd be kind of screwed up, wouldn't it? John
'98 SVT - modded
-15.01@91.8
'95 Suzuki GS500E
-faster than the above
---wanting a Speed Triple or Superhawk badly
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,847
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,847 |
Originally posted by JVT:
We passed the truck at about 80-85mph tops.
I doubt the trooper could pace us because we had a 80mph head start on him even before he pulled out onto the road.
John Not being there, I don't know how long the officer was behind you before you pulled over. Its likely, however, that viewing the tape would make it obvious that the 4 of you were racing each other, just as its likely that its obvious that you reached speeds well in excess of 85 mph. Drag racing in traffic is prima facia evidence of reckless driving, so you get convicted on both counts.....
"When I take action, I'm not going to fire a $2 million missile at a $10 empty tent and hit a camel in the butt. It's going to be decisive." - President George W. Bush
95 Contour SE ATX V6
"Cracked" Secondaries
DMD Installed
SVT Brakes
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,028
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,028 |
Sandman, you do raise some very good points, but I will still talk to a lawyer and see what my options are.
We were the only traffic on the road, thats why we decided to 'play' a little. We all now what we did was wrong, and maybe a bit childish. But, if we were set-up, by the wrecker and the trooper, well, than isn't that entrapment? (sp?)
We all know we are guilty of speeding, but of racing, we were driving fast, our 'tours, modified or not, are no match for the bikes. They made us look like we were driving backwards they were able to pull on so fast!
I truly believe I did not cross that double yellow line, as the trooper stated. If I did, and its proven by the video, then I'll deal with that. But, the speeds he got us with, I'm still confused about that. How does LIDAR work, I thought that was LASER?
Chris
NJ
98.5 SVT Silver Frost w/Frankentrans
carsla AT optonline DOT net
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,847
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,847 |
If he did that, he'd clock the bikes doing 140+ and given them a separate ticket, not 100 in a 55 to ALL 4 of us.
The radar gun may or may not pick up the bike at all next to a car or truck. The cross sectional area of the bike is so much smaller than a car that it may get lost in the reflected signal from the car, regardless of the "Fastest Target Mode" selection. You mean they can charge us with MORE serious offenses if we decide to fight it? That'd be kind of screwed up, wouldn't it?
Without the video tape, probably not. With it, yes, easilty. you can be aquitted of any speeding charge, and then subsequently prosecuted and convicted of a drag racing and reckless driving charge, because they are seperate offenses. You can only be tried for any one crime once. However, you committed three crimes....... ...notwithstanding any other traffic laws you broke.....
"When I take action, I'm not going to fire a $2 million missile at a $10 empty tent and hit a camel in the butt. It's going to be decisive." - President George W. Bush
95 Contour SE ATX V6
"Cracked" Secondaries
DMD Installed
SVT Brakes
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,042
Moderator
|
|
OP
Moderator
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,042 |
Originally posted by Sandman333:
Not being there, I don't know how long the officer was behind you before you pulled over. I saw him probably about 1/4 of a mile behind me, and I was the last car. At that point, I couldn't even tell if it was a trooper. So no way he had CLEAR footage of us doing all the stuff, especially since we were behind a long winding turn. Its likely, however, that viewing the tape would make it obvious that the 4 of you were racing each other, just as its likely that its obvious that you reached speeds well in excess of 85 mph. Ok, how can they prove that we were racing? What constitues racing? I thought racing means both/all cars at the same speed, going WOT at the same speed and going as fast as you want, or is possible. Why would we be racing bikes? The bikes slowed down and passed us 2-3 times easy. [/quote]Drag racing in traffic is prima facia evidence of reckless driving, so you get convicted on both counts.....[/QB][/QUOTE] There was no traffic when we got to the higher speeds. Not ONE car. There was an oncoming car as soon as we passed the tow truck, but other than that, we didn't pass, or get passed by another car. John
'98 SVT - modded
-15.01@91.8
'95 Suzuki GS500E
-faster than the above
---wanting a Speed Triple or Superhawk badly
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,028
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,028 |
I think no matter what we do, we need to get a lawyer involved to determine our best course of action. If he/she thinks its worth it, and can represent us, together or separetly, then we will do it. If not, well, we will suffer the consequences. I just hope no one loses their licenses, because I know I *need* to drive to work.
Chris
Chris
NJ
98.5 SVT Silver Frost w/Frankentrans
carsla AT optonline DOT net
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,042
Moderator
|
|
OP
Moderator
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,042 |
Originally posted by Chris Arslanyan:
I just hope no one loses their licenses, because I know I *need* to drive to work.
I hear that... I would hope that they would give us a permit of some sorts to drive to and from work and school... BTW Chris, check your e-mail. John
'98 SVT - modded
-15.01@91.8
'95 Suzuki GS500E
-faster than the above
---wanting a Speed Triple or Superhawk badly
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,847
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,847 |
Originally posted by Chris Arslanyan:
Sandman, you do raise some very good points, but I will still talk to a lawyer and see what my options are.
It's your money. Do you know whether or not the officer had a camera? If there is videotape evidence, IMHO you would be ahead of the game just to admit to what you did and beg for mercy.
We were the only traffic on the road, thats why we decided to 'play' a little.
I thought someone mentioned a tow truck. That gets you the reckless driving charge.
We all now what we did was wrong, and maybe a bit childish. But, if we were set-up, by the wrecker and the trooper, well, than isn't that entrapment? (sp?)
lol, how could they have set you up? Really? Did they offer you money to drag race along the highway? No? Then you have no case. I wouldn't mention that to the judge, likely to get you a more severe sentence.
We all know we are guilty of speeding, but of racing, we were driving fast, our 'tours, modified or not, are no match for the bikes. They made us look like we were driving backwards they were able to pull on so fast!
You just about defined the legal definition of drag racing there. Here is the IL definition, and in other states YMMV:
(625 ILCS 5/11-503)
Sec. 11-503. Reckless driving; aggravated reckless driving.
(a) Any person who drives any vehicle with a willful or wanton
disregard for the safety of persons or property is guilty of reckless
driving.
(b) Every person convicted of reckless driving shall be guilty of a
Class A misdemeanor, except as provided under subsection (c) of this
Section.
(c) Every person convicted of committing a violation of subsection
(a) shall be guilty of aggravated reckless driving if the violation
results in great bodily harm or permanent disability or disfigurement to
another. Aggravated reckless driving is a Class 4 felony.
(Source: P.A. 88-679, eff. 7-1-95.)
(625 ILCS 5/11-504)
Sec. 11-504. Drag racing. Any person who, as an operator of a motor
vehicle, is convicted of being a participant in drag racing shall be
guilty of a Class C misdemeanor, and the driver's license of such person
shall be revoked in the manner provided by Section 6-205.
"Drag racing" means the act of 2 or more individuals competing or
racing on any street or highway in this State in a situation in which
one of the motor vehicles is beside or to the rear of a motor vehicle
operated by a competing driver and the one driver attempts to prevent
the competing driver from passing or overtaking, either by acceleration
or maneuver, or one or more individuals competing in a race against time
on any street or highway in this State.
(Source: P.A. 83-831.)
I truly believe I did not cross that double yellow line, as the trooper stated. If I did, and its proven by the video, then I'll deal with that. But, the speeds he got us with, I'm still confused about that. How does LIDAR work, I thought that was LASER? Yes, it is a laser. The officer looks through a scope of sorts on the lidar gun and aims it at you license plate. This way, he knows exactly which vehicle is targeted. The range on modern lidar guns is further than radar. Radar is emitted in a cone, while lidar is a narrow (relatively) beam.
"When I take action, I'm not going to fire a $2 million missile at a $10 empty tent and hit a camel in the butt. It's going to be decisive." - President George W. Bush
95 Contour SE ATX V6
"Cracked" Secondaries
DMD Installed
SVT Brakes
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,847
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,847 |
I saw him probably about 1/4 of a mile behind me, and I was the last car. At that point, I couldn't even tell if it was a trooper. So no way he had CLEAR footage of us doing all the stuff, especially since we were behind a long winding turn.
But do you know where he was hiding when you passed him? If you were far enough apart when you went by him, he could get the speed of each car/bike as it passed. You don't really have to have that much distance between you for this to work.... Ok, how can they prove that we were racing? What constitues racing? I thought racing means both/all cars at the same speed, going WOT at the same speed and going as fast as you want, or is possible.
Why would we be racing bikes? The bikes slowed down and passed us 2-3 times easy.
See my quote from the ILCS on what constitutes drag racing in IL. As for why you would be racing bikes, well, that won't fly in court either. I have to ask myself every day why some people do the stupid stuff they do (not calling you stupid, just making an example), and rarely do I come up with a viable answer.... the judge likely has the same view on this as I do. There was no traffic when we got to the higher speeds. Not ONE car. There was an oncoming car as soon as we passed the tow truck, but other than that, we didn't pass, or get passed by another car.
Let's see, there was the oncoming car, the tow truck, the officer, and the 4 of you. Tell me again that there was no traffic? Sorry, not going to fly in court.
"When I take action, I'm not going to fire a $2 million missile at a $10 empty tent and hit a camel in the butt. It's going to be decisive." - President George W. Bush
95 Contour SE ATX V6
"Cracked" Secondaries
DMD Installed
SVT Brakes
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,042
Moderator
|
|
OP
Moderator
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,042 |
We weren't far apart at all when passing the tow truck.
If he would have gotten us for speeding right then, then it would have been a 80-85mph ticket, and also would have ticketed Simon which was IN FRONT of me passing the tow truck.
I was more or less trying to say that the bikes passed us a few times, speeding up and slowing down. This constitutes drag racing? Don't think so.
I was either in front of or behind Chris the entire time. Would a two cars going faster than the speedlimit constitute drag racing? Don't think so.
By your definition of drag racing, people following each other on the highway at a high rate of speed would get charged for drag racing. Poop.
The car, the tow truck, and the officer were WAY behind us when we got up to that high rate of speed. How the fugg far do you have to be from other cars when driving reckless? 10 miles?
Sorry, just kinda frustrated with our court system and BS laws.
John
'98 SVT - modded
-15.01@91.8
'95 Suzuki GS500E
-faster than the above
---wanting a Speed Triple or Superhawk badly
|
|
|
|
|
