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#336828 07/17/02 11:24 PM
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Andrew
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#336829 07/17/02 11:31 PM
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Well Javacontour. I will have to say you have made me open my eyes.


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#336830 07/17/02 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Antonio Wright:
Well Javacontour. I will have to say you have made me open my eyes.
Is this good/bad or sarcasm? Would you mind elaborating. I do realize that you generally don't like these types of discussions on the boards, if I recall correctly your recent posts in the "Great Religious Wars on the CEG" (LOL)

Not an attack, I just wanna know more about your eye-opening experience.

This just lets me know how my views are received here in CEG land.

Thanks,

TB
Who does realize this is a car board wink


Tony Boner
Personal: 98cdw27@charter.net Work: tony.boner@sun.com
Saving the computer world from WinBloze as Unix/Solaris/Java Guru http://www.sun.com
1998 Contour SVT Pre-E1 618/6535 Born On Date: 4/30/1997
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#336831 07/17/02 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by javaContour:
Quote:
Originally posted by Antonio Wright:
[b]Well Javacontour. I will have to say you have made me open my eyes.
Is this good/bad or sarcasm? Would you mind elaborating. I do realize that you generally don't like these types of discussions on the boards, if I recall correctly your recent posts in the "Great Religious Wars on the CEG" (LOL)

Not an attack, I just wanna know more about your eye-opening experience.

This just lets me know how my views are received here in CEG land.

Thanks,

TB
Who does realize this is a car board wink [/b]
No I am dead serious. I do agree as a country we ARE destroying ourselves from within. I love America alot and I don't want to see that happen. I know I sound ghey but oh well..

-Antonio


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#336832 07/17/02 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Antonio Wright:
Quote:
Originally posted by javaContour:
[b]
Quote:
Originally posted by Antonio Wright:
[b]Well Javacontour. I will have to say you have made me open my eyes.
Is this good/bad or sarcasm? Would you mind elaborating. I do realize that you generally don't like these types of discussions on the boards, if I recall correctly your recent posts in the "Great Religious Wars on the CEG" (LOL)

Not an attack, I just wanna know more about your eye-opening experience.

This just lets me know how my views are received here in CEG land.

Thanks,

TB
Who does realize this is a car board wink [/b]
No I am dead serious. I do agree as a country we ARE destroying ourselves from within. I love American alot and I don't want to see that happen. I know I sound ghey but oh well..

-Antonio[/b]
Thanks for reading my views.

TB
Conservative is not equal to hateful.


Tony Boner
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#336833 07/18/02 12:29 AM
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"...it is better to have none than to have some...but if there must BE some, it is better to have few than to have many."

-ronny raygun....i have no idea what he was talking about and he probably didn't either


95 contour se...dark blue...monsterflow air filter...remanuf atx...wiring harness recall or bust!!!96k miles...motorcraft awsf32pp plugs & red ford racing 9mm wires...kvr black plated cross-drilled rotors & carbon fiber pads...currently undergoing renovation...excuse our dust!!!
are my dodgers for real????
#336834 07/18/02 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by gdub520:
"...it is better to have none than to have some...but if there must BE some, it is better to have few than to have many."

-ronny raygun....i have no idea what he was talking about and he probably didn't either
Use search, LOL http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/resource/speeches/1983/33083a.htm

Ironic, this was taken from a speech Ronald Reagan gave regarding the deployment of intermediate nuclear missiles in Europe. Something I know about, since I was on the US side of that game. I served three years with the 56th Field Artillery (A Pershing II, intermediate Nuclear Missle Unit, see the missle in the Smithsonian Air and Space in DC, standing beside a Soviet SS20.)

So it make sense doesn't it, especially when you put all the words in there:

Quote:
President Ronald Reagan said:
When it comes to intermediate nuclear missiles in Europe, it would be better to have none than to have some. But if there must be some, it is better to have few than to have many. If the Soviets will not now agree to the total elimination of these weapons, I hope that they will at least join us in an interim agreement that would substantially reduce these forces to equal levels on both sides.


Tony Boner
Personal: 98cdw27@charter.net Work: tony.boner@sun.com
Saving the computer world from WinBloze as Unix/Solaris/Java Guru http://www.sun.com
1998 Contour SVT Pre-E1 618/6535 Born On Date: 4/30/1997
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#336835 07/18/02 02:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by javaContour:
...We should learn from previous civilizations such as the Greeks or Romans that wielded much power. When the culture becomes obsessed with self above others, my rights, others be damned, the civilization begins to rot from the inside and becomes easily defeated from the enemys of that culture....
TB
If anyone has a half-year to read the unabridged 3 volume version or a couple of months for the abridged version, pick up The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon. Some of the parallels between the Roman Empire of yesteryear and what the US is going through today is frightening and full of foreboding, to say the least...

Back to the chase, though.

I'm skirting a number of issues when I say this, but in response of all the EVIL and HORRID things that the US is doing to a multitude of countries around the globe on a daily basis:

Better us on top of the pyramid than someone else, becuase we are a HELL of a lot more benevolent than most other countries that populate this planet.

Wonder what things would be like if #2 or #3 were in charge today? Go to Tienamen Square in Beijing, China and ask that question. Go to any corner or Russia or any of her one-time satellite states and ask that question, at the same time trying not to get mugged, shot, extorted. If you want to lodge a complaint about environmental misuses, check out the oil fields of Azerbaijan and the environmental wasteland that the USSR created along the Caspian Sea during their tenure there. Check out any manufacturing town in mainland China and place your fingers on a standing stone or rock column and see how deep the soot and ash is on things.

Yes, the US lacks in certain areas, but as the whole package is taken into consideration, we are by FAR and AWAY the best country to live in, bar none (excluding Costa Rica, Switzerland and New Zealand, which I've got soft spots for all three for various reasons wink ).

Things generally are heading the wrong direction, in terms of ethics, morals and values here in the U.S. We've been allowed the luxury of being "soft" for far too long, and it shows in the gross obesity and laziness that is becoming epedemic among certain segments of the population, our blatant ignorance of others outside the borders of this country, to the hand-outs that so many expect simply because of their "condition" (usually self-inflicted due to the choices made in life).

I see far too many people these days that instead of shouldering their burdens and dealing with them in an intelligent and straightforward fashion, they spend all their time trying to place that burden on someone else's shoulders and then when called on the carpet for it, they crassly make excuses and try to lay the blame somewhere else.

I honestly feel that living in the US is a PRIVELIDGE, though many I know and talk to feel that it's a God-given right due to being born on the right side of the Pacific, Atlantic, or Rio Grande. Not only this, they have the outrageousness and sheer audacity to step all over this privelidge daily in their irreverance and comments to the past and present sacrifices that our Armed Forces make/have made, their blatant disregard towards this country's heritage (be it the flag, the US Constitution or the legal system), their puddle-deep political, social and economical views passed off as self-proclaimed expert advice and commentary (though it was freshly obtained from watching Oprah, CNN and hitting the headlines on the front page of USAToday), and finally their total stated lack or care of which direction that this nation is heading in (as long as their financial and social interests are served, of course).

I'm describing a number of people known to me; some liberal, some conservative, some card-carrying Democrats, some card-carrying Republicans. In the final review, they pretty much all carry the arrogant and overbearing nature of individuals brought up without an instilled respect of themselves, others around them, and most of all, without respect for something greater that allows them their little peculiarities in spite of themselves:

This COUNTRY.

There is much to dislike about the US today, no doubt. There is much that needs work, but none more than the attitudes of a great many of the citizens that populate this country. I respect and love this country like many here; also like many here that's why I'm so critical for or against certain actions and policies that this country makes.

I was once asked by a Sociology college professor in a small Italian restauraunt in Norman, OK over a couple of carafes of wine what precisely would it take to change my warped conservative views. This man was spouting many of the old standby's: environmental abuses, rape and abuse of overseas labor, political corruption, firearm abuses, Big Business taking over the World, etc., etc.

My answer?

Given that this conservative has helped clean up roadsides of trash for a number of years in civic organizations, actively takes part in the voting process, has personally given up a backpack of food to a starving family hitchhiking on the outskirts of the industrial sector of Leon, Mexico, after talking to them at a pop stand for about a half-hour and finally, quit a job due to a stand over business ethics, I said it would take a liberal that would get up and act for once instead of *****ing and moaning about things. After swallowing that bitter pill, all I got out of him was an "Oh".

I have thought about it. A lot. It's individuals that, through their own self-imposed high standards, ethics, values and beliefs that can collectively make or break this country and what it is. It starts and ends there. My above rejoinder aside, it has nothing to do with being conservative or liberal. It simply takes people who care and who will act.


JaTo
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#336836 07/18/02 02:51 AM
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JaTo,

Some here say I can write, but compared to you, I simply "get by" when it comes to the written word.

But then I know that from my grades in schools, straight A's except for one class, English.

Never could understand how I did better in French than in English, LOL.

So, before I derail the thread, great post.

TB


Tony Boner
Personal: 98cdw27@charter.net Work: tony.boner@sun.com
Saving the computer world from WinBloze as Unix/Solaris/Java Guru http://www.sun.com
1998 Contour SVT Pre-E1 618/6535 Born On Date: 4/30/1997
Now with Aussie Bar induced mild oversteer.
#336837 07/18/02 03:55 AM
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This seems to be the start of a really great thread so far.

I don't often see eye-to-eye with some of the conservatives on this board, not because I am not a conservative, but simply because some of them base all their views on religion which I do not. I share some very conservative views and some that are very liberal.

I don't feel that this country should necesarialy keep meddling in every other countries affairs. We need to get off the fence and either help a side win (in conflicts that is) or leave everyone else alone. There are many servicemen and women who have given their lives to protect others freedom only to be resented by that country and other countries in this world. We are often the target of riddicule and as we have all seen recently, terrorist attacks, because of our efforts in helping other countries. I have just about had enough, nobody wants our help anymore? Fine, we won't give it to them, but we all know it wouldn't be long before the UN, other developed nations and countries in need would be knocking on our door for assistance. The soldiers that we could remove from these hostile countries would be easily put to good use patrolling our borders, IMO.

I don't necesarialy have a problem with immigrants, just a problem with illegal ones. As any of us know from High School US history, this country was built on the pain and suffering of immagrants, although most of them were legal. Many of these groups came here facing persecution, racism, a language barrier and other harsh factors. However, they trekked through it all and rose to the top, not like some of the illegal immigrants today. Instead we give them medical care, welfare, and even add a national language to appease them. I will give some respect where it is deserved however, they do some jobs in this country that most americans would not do? Why is this? I guess everyone else feels they are just too good. This is something I have a problem with. People who don't have much qualafications, skills or education need to face the harsh reality that they are the ones who need to fill these mundane positions. If they don't like it, they can just change their lives. We all know how many stupid people there are with a college education out there.

I think TB hit the nail on the head when he started talking about the publics general lack of responsibility in this country. Everyone else is so quick to blame others and of course SUE! in the event something goes wrong. This of course has lead to many of the great bloated government organizations we have today. These are often the same type of people who piss and mpan about everything, and want a handout in the process. There has been a phrase that serves this purpose well, "If you really hate this country and disrespect it, get the Fcuk out! There are plenty of people who would enjoy taking your place here."

-Pete
(Not liberal, not conservative, and sometimes contradicting myself)


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