Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums General Common Interests A letter to Ford... What cops want.

Wouldn't you prefer one of these...

Easy answer to this question. Window relay modules. I have them for my alarm on all 4 windows. I have a choice, they will automatically roll up when I turn off the ignition, or roll up automatically when I set the alarm. It also adds 1-touch to ALL windows! But then again, relays are cheap, but the labor is time consuming (wires).

Sandman, I always wondered this, what are the police cars tire speed rating?

Hey Sandman,
UNfortunately, I'm not on the panther program (panther is the nickname for the Crown Vic and Grand Marquis programs) but I have always toyed around w/ thoughts on how to design a more desirable/useful police vehicle. Anyway, here are a few of my thoughts on the things you bring up, and perhaps I will throw a few items of my own in there

the CV is currently THE choice among police cruisers, but your right, it really is because there is not much suitable from the "other" side of Detroit. The Impala, while a decent car, just doesn't seem to be suitable for Police use. One thing I have noticed, is the dramatic increase in use of SUVs among police departments, and not just for special units (like the K9s and SWAT or whatever) but as regular cruisers; I dunno, that does kinda make sense to me, at least to a point anyway.

Good point, not many folks think about the window speed thing. Another side thought to this, is what about a remote control of some kind, like many of the aftermarket alarm systems offer (I know a lot of K9 units have remote rear door openers) for window control, etc.? Though this does bring up the point, of how much more are Police depts willing to pay for vehicles? It can cost a lot of money to put together parts specifically for low production vehicles (which is why things like that only happen when there is high demand, and marketing is POSITIVE everyhting will sell well. Good examples - Bullitt, Cobra; Bad Example - Blackwood) Either way you do it (hi-speed smart window motors or remote control setup) its gonna cost more, such is life.

A compromised IRS design (designed to fit into a platform originally designed for a solid axle) is not the panacea many people believe it to be. Likely ride will improve, but ultimate handling ability likely will not improve appreciably (despite dramatic cost increases) The Mustang solid axle suffers from a heavily compromised suspension geometry due to many factors beyond the control of the guys designing the suspension (and the Cobra IRS suffers because of the same factors, plus a few more). Fortunately, the CV does not suffer from as many of the geometry limiting factors, and actually gets a parallel 4-link design w/ a watts link (this is good for a solid axle setup) The handling limitations of the CV/PI stem not necessarily from the suspension design, but from the massive heft of the vehicle, and the somewhat soft suspension tuning (some decent seats for you guys would help too). As to the driveshaft harmonics issue, this is the first I've heard of anything like that, but even if it is true, there are other, far better ways to fix somehting like that, than going to an IRS rear (the IRS in the Mustang is actually worse for transmitted harmonics than the solid axle) Bottom line here, I wouldn't want an IRS in the car, for many reasons, not the least of which is that it really won't help, despite a hefty cost hit for it.

You'll get no argument from me that Ford needs to improve its auto transmissions. And I have always thought cruisers need to be quicker off the line.

Ooooohhhh, rack and pinion I thought you said "Rack and Peanut" steering (I guess you had to see that Simpson's episode)
Honestly, that's likely another issue where there is no r&p setup designed for the car (a lot of the blue-hairs like the recirc. ball steering, go figure . . .)
I don't disagree at all, but can kinda understand why it isn't there.

I dunno who told you the wiper linkage design was the only thing keeping the 5.4 out of the car, but that is utter BS. Heck, we know the motor will fit in the Mustang (and have done it) but it still doesn't go in the car on a regular basis, for many many reasons.
That said, I agree wholeheartedly that the car needs more grunt, at least the new Marauder motor would be a good step in the right direction.

Can't say that I'm convinced that a drop-off rear windshield will hurt fuel mileage much at all. I've seen aerodynamic studies of airfoil shapes w/ a drop-off shape like that where form drag was dramatically reduced. I'm guessing your fuel economy issues come from someplace else, but who knows.

I'm doubting this will happen. What about putting some driving lights in the push bar assembly (I've seen some depts have this) and wire them in as wig-wags w/ the regular lights?

I can't recall if the heated mirrors and backlight are available on the regualr CV or not (I assume they are) but I don't see why Ford wouldn't add them to the PI package if enough departments were asking for them. As for the heated lightbar, IIRC the lightbar conversion work is done by outside conversion companies, and they would be the ones responsible for doing somehting like that.

I agree, somehting should be done here, and there are plenty of possible solutions. Ask your dept. procurement guys to start asking for stuff like this.

Dunno what to say here, only that Ford's powertrain guys are constantly working to improve the durability of the engines. There are several issues related to this that I know have already been resolved. Hopefully any new CV/PIs you guys get won't be doing anyhitng like this.

I'll be honest here, no way in he11 would I redesign a good brake system because the police dept. decides to cheap out on pads at replacement time. Would you ask me to redesign a gas tank if they kept giving you crappy gas?

Federal, and Ford internal design requirements only allow the fuel tank to extend into certain areas, and anywhere near the passenger compartment is not one of them (because of a few notable issues years ago) There is more to this one, but I can't really talk about it.

Rara, that's quite possibly the longest post I've ever read. Good points.

Sandman, with all the points you're mentioning (and the subsequent costs), wouldn't it be better for Ford just to get another car for police intercepter? I've seen several Tauruses (Tauri?) used for campus/mall security and the like, plus other cars. Is there a benefit to the CV being an interceptor?

What I'm trying to say is, what do you actually LIKE about the Crown Vic?

hehe, I didn't even think about it being that long, I replied to it very quickly, I guess it was just because sandman's original post wasn't short either, and I quoted the whole thing.

From what I understand, the 2003 PI has R&P, as does the Marauder, so that issue may already be taken care of.

From here: http://www.crownvic.net/news/lomag.shtml

Specifically, in that article:

Incidentally, Rara, if you wanted to head over there and help defend me on the weak auto tranny issue, I would much appreciate it. Seems the crowd over there can't fathom that Ford might need to make some improvements to their precious Crown Vic. The link to the thread is http://www.crownvic.net/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=013102#000024

Just looking for a solution to force departments to buy quality pads. If that is all that is available, they will be forced into it. It's an officer safety issue. I know Ford doesn't care about that, but I sure as hell do....

Which is why I suggested extending it into the trunk space somewhat. I'd give up som space back there for increased range any day.

Like I said before, there is no way that this is the only thing keeping the 5.4L out of the CVPI, there has got to be more, whether capacity, assembly, political, whatever, but htere is no way this is the only thing keeping it out.

Besides, people are talking about the 4.6L 4V going in it, and Ford has shown a concept w/ the 4V as well. I would much rather have the 4.6L DOHC in there over the 5.4L SOHC, more power, same torque. What the heck do you want?



actually, the 4R70W is a pretty good trans, as far as ford's auto transmissions go. It is pretty durable, and works very well. Though it may suffer a bit under severe duty if regular maintenence is not performed (does your dept. service guys follow Ford's severe duty maintenace schedule?) I was speaking about Ford's auto transmissions in general. btw, do the CVPI's get a big trans cooler? seems like something you guys should really have.

How 'bout bringing up your safety complaints to the powers that be in your organization? I mean, if they knew it would endager and officer, would they give you blanks for your glock?

And how long do you think that will be all that is available???? Especially if a lot of depts are asking for cheaper pads?

Again, this would imply to me that YOUR dept. is compromising your safety, not Ford.

This is a low down dirty shot and you know it. Ford designs a really good brake system for you guys, and specifies a particular kind of pad, and YOU BLAME FORD WHEN YOUR DEPT. DOESN"T USE FORD SPECIFIED PARTS???????? This comment really pisses me off, how can you dare say Ford doesn't care about officer safety in reference to brake systems, when you readily admit the stock brake system is really good until the pads are replaced?? And further, you want Ford to spend millions of dollars to redesign a GOOD foundation brake system, just so your dept. can't be cheap? You think they will sign up for the tooling for the new calipers that would be necessary? How about for the new master cylinder to match the new calipers? Huh?
If you care so much about it, tell your fricking captain, not Ford, its not ford's fault.

I won't comment on the fuel tank thing. Just trust me, there are very good reasons you can't do that.

One word. NAAAAAAWS!

I'd love to have the 5.4, but from what I understand, the block is taller. That may be why the 4.6 DOHC will fit, but the 5.4 won't.

Whatever factory cooler comes with it, I dunno. My experience is that they fall apart. The majority of officers I talk to have had the same experience. Seems to be a trend.

I wish it were that simple. Unfortunately, they get the cheapest parts they can and hope for the best... like most departments.

Your right. I dunno. There has got to be a way of forcing this issue. I don't have all the answers.

First, Rara, my comment was in general, about how Ford couldn't give a crap about the opinions or concerns of its customers, unless those opinions will affect sales. Being that Ford has the only RWD, full size platform (car) for police, sales are not likely to be affected by any of these issues.

I have first hand experience with Ford's lack of concern for anything but the almighty dollar:
A Ford dealer killed the engine in my 1995 Contour. They wanted to put the replacement engine on my warranty and have me pay for the rental. I called Ford Customer Service, and they had a tech out to inspect my vehicle the very next day (at the dealership). Let's just say that the service advisor was not happy. The dealership ended up paying for the engine and the rental. Then, when I got the car back, I noticed that they had broken a few things on it. I again called Ford and asked if I could take the car to another dealership as I didn't trust the first guys with my car anymore. Ford's response was that they didn't get involved in issues of dealer workmanship. Well, they sure as hell got involved when it might have been their dime, didn't they? lol @ Ford. I like their cars, but I have no illusions that they care at all for their customers.

I can't imagine why they couldn't remove some trunk space and use that for the fuel tank, unless crash tests on that particular car show that the trunk space is necessarry as a crumple zone. I'm not talking about putting the fuel tank in the trunk, just moving the trunk floor up in order to fit a larger tank. 19 gallons is not enough for such a large car with a V8.