|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,075
Member
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,075 |
Originally posted by hairhorn: History is full of accounts of where the US has used military intervention against countries that had been ruled by viciously oppressive governments. If saluting the flag were made mandatory in this country, would not our government then be guilty of oppression?
I HAVE RESPECT for the flag. I would NEVER EVER spit on it, or burn it, or wear it in the design of a tacky piece of clothing.
But, I believe just as firmly that my allegiance belongs to the Almighty God and his Son, Jesus Christ. For that reason, I will not salute the flag or say the "pledge of allegiance."
Because a person does not salute the flag or say the pledge of allegiance, does not automatically mean that they are a bad citizen with hatred for this country.
(this is just my .02 on this issue...and I respect the opinions voiced on all sides of it..)
 To pledge allegiance to a flag is not worship of it. The flag is a representation of what this country is. The words, "Under God" put the country right in it's place... EDIT: Edward C, you are strangely quiet in this post...or are you out celebrating with the ACLU?
Ride: 2000 T-red SE
Beats: Kenwood 316S, Alpine MRF200, Orion XTR 6.2, Coustic 400SE
Mods: CTA, Magnaflow exhaust, SVT Instrument cluster, Knuaberized doors, side markers, F***ed up painted headlights.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 818
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 818 |
Hey, what did EdwardC do? Anyway, it will get sorted out in the Supreme Court. That's what they're there for.
2000 Contour SE Sport T-Red MTX, Mystique rear dome light, Blau Florida cd.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 197
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 197 |
from another forum: "...millions of our school children will daily proclaim in every city and town, every village and rural schoolhouse, the dedication of our Nation and our people to the Almighty." -President Dwight Eisenhower on the addition of "under God" to the Pledge of Allegiance
Sounds like the very purpose of that Congressional ruling to add that phrase to dedicate the American people to a single God. Sounds like a total violation of the Separation of Church and State to me!
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
And what did Congress do in 1954? They made a law respecting an establishment of religion! And, yes, this restriction is placed on Congress. However, as I have stated before, Congress is the People! Sounds like just reverting back to the pre 50's pledge would make it all right again. I also happen to disagree with the making it a big issue but since our wonderful lawmakers are pushing to make the pledge mandatory in schools (which I would support, if the under God line was dropped) it's going to come up.
96 Contour GL
2.5 ATX
02 Mazda Protege LX
2.0 MTX
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 452
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 452 |
Is anyone in here actually surprised? I'm not.
YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST: Money is next!
Silver E1
I'm afraid Speed Demon has given me the mod bug.
AIM: Davo7Wins
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,983
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,983 |
I think all the whiney ass *****es who complain about this kind of stuff should be rounded up, forced onto stakebed trucks and cattle trucks, and shipped to California where they belong! 
P. Valdez 1998 VW Jetta TDI 1.9L I4 direct injection turbo diesel 5 speed manual no mods, no money AIM:PackRatTDI My exhaust smells better than yours.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 11
Junior Member
|
|
Junior Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 11 |
You don't salute the flag? I salute out of military custom, not because I'm saying that my country comes before God. As for the pledge, I couldn't tell you the last time I said it, but I really don't remember anyone getting in trouble for refusing to say it in school. The way I see it, you could just pretend to say it if you were all that worried.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 165
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 165 |
My 2 cents
I am a Christian (not a bible thumper which means I won't smack you upside the head with it) BUT here is what bothers me and you have to hear it from this side too.
We are told a simple line that has been said billions upon billions upon billions of times is now unconstitutional. "One nation, under God...."
Why is this all of a sudden such an ordeal?
We have scientists wanting to play God or god-Let's get cloned
We have people wanting to get chipped???? Why???
Strange things are happening kids, and again, I am not gonna stand up and slap you around. I just really think it is sad that I am told that because I personally believe in God/Jesus Christ/Holy Spirit that hey I don't matter or make sense. And I know you guys here aren't saying that or trying to come across that way. Just think really slowly and carefully on these small things. AGAIN don't wanna get on anyone's nerves but hey I don't get it...
But hey this is my two cents protected by the constitution.
....He walks away silently.....
'96 Mystique, Zetec, MTX.
---Mods---
Removed both intake resonators and airbox. Installed APC air filter and APC crankcase ventilation filter. Removed exhaust resonator.
Installed XM Satellite Radio. Replaced bad alternator and 175a fusible link...much fun!
Intake plenum---GONE!!!!
My car growls louder than yours.
If I can't buy it, I'll build it...Trust Me!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 582
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 582 |
A few points...
1. If a school system requires you to state belief in a god, that IS state-funded. Last time I checked, tax dollars support the schools.
2. The Supreme Court will toss this anyway. Mandatory recitation of the pledge was nullilied long ago, don't remember the case name but it involved Jahova (sp??) Witnesses vs. State of WV, was decided in the 30's or 40's against mandatory Pledge, this will take precident over this case.
READ THIS ONE THROUGH!
3. Please, do NOT tell me to leave America if I don't like the way we do things. How ignorant. If you want to get in a pissing match, how about senority? I can track my family back to 1738 in America, AND along the way I also accuired Native American blood. Maybe I have more say on "who" "we" are. But that is a dumb way to do it, true? Face it, America has always been an evolving nation, i.e. Fed vs. State power, slavery, women's rights, civil rights. MANY people have not stood for "the way we do things", and we are the better for it.
If you don't like the way we do things, then then try to change them. Either you are right or wrong, BUT IT IS YOUR RIGHT TO BE HEARD!
Doug former owner of a 95 SE MTX
Now driving a Bravada, no more fun in the twisties!
DrGonzo767@aol.com
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,087
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,087 |
First of all, show me the phrase "separation of church and state".............
no where!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Again, it shall be repeated, the Constitution does not allow the government to force religion on anybody. This country was founded with Christian values and morals...DEAL WID IT!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 195
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 195 |
DrGonzo, I believe that the case you are referring to is "West Virginia Board Of Education vs. Barnette." The Supreme Court handed down its decision of that case in June of 1943. Note some of the comments contained in the summary opinion of that case, as written by Chief Justice Lehman.....
"The salute of the flag is a gesture of love and respect--fine when there is real love and respect backing the gesture. The flag is dishonoured by a salute by a child in reluctant and terrified obedience to a command of secular authority which clashes with dictates of conscience. The salute of the flag is an expression of the homage of the soul. To force it upon one who has conscientious scruples against giving it, is petty tyranny unworthy of the spirit of this Republic and forbidden we think by the fundamental law."
-----------------------
2000 Ford Contour SE
Toreador Red
4cyl. / ATX.
(no mods..can't afford to void warranty)
|
|
|
|
|
