Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums General Common Interests Ford vs. Chrysler, a comparison

Sorry, not specifically about the Contour, just some general observations about Ford and one of their competitors.

I've always liked Chrysler interiors. Their cars are usually fugly on the outside, but they get the interior right.

Recently, I drove a 2001 Dodge Grand Caravan. This makes for a good comparison to my 2000 Windstar.

The Windstar has hella lot more power than the Caravan. To be fair, the Caravan did not have the top engine choice (it had the 3.3L, vs. the Windstar's 3.8L). However, the 3.8L is the only engine choice for the Windstar. The end result is that the Windstar is a rocket, while the Caravan is a dog.

The trade off for all this power is a lot of Noise, Vibration, and Harshness. The 3.8L 6 is an old design, and not at all in line with the rest of the Ford engine family. Why they still use it is beyond me. IIRC, it puts out 200 hp/212 ft lbs. I would think that Ford should easily be able to swap in the 3.0L Duratech and meet or exceed those power levels. This would go a long way toward making the Windstar an attractive alternative to Chrysler's offerings.

On to the interior: Why can't Ford design interiors that are comfortable? About the only drawback to the Dodge is that the heater controls feel extremely cheap. I was afraid I was going to break them every time I adjusted the temp.

The Dodge's seats are perfect. The lower seat is soft and extends far enough to offer good thigh support even to me (I stand 6'5"). The Ford's seats are hard and offer no lateral support. Oddly, the lateral supports on the Ford seat bottom are too soft, while the actual seating surface is too hard, both opposite of what they should be. Further, the Dodge seat back cradles the driver; not like a sports car, but just enough to prevent you from sliding around during cornering. The Ford seat back offers no lateral support.

The Dodge steering wheel is thicker than the Ford, and the cross-section of the rim is somewhat egg shaped. This makes it very comfortable, unlike the Ford.

I think Ford needs to reverse-engineer the Dodge interior, swap in a modern engine (and hopefully give a modest power increase in the deal), and they will have the best minivan on the market (a fold-away rear seat like in the Honda Oddessy wouldn't hurt either). People buy the Windstar because it has the best safety rating. I don't see why Ford can't fix these other issues. It doesn't seem that they should increase the vehicle price.

The 3L Duratech is probably a more expensive engine than the 3.8L...it all comes down to cost.

Brian

Perhaps, but I would think that Ford would be able to save costs by streamlining their production. AFAIK, the Mustang and Windstar are the only 2 vehicles that still use the 3.8L V6. I know that they are planning to replace that engine in the Mustang (With a variant of the Duratech, IIRC), so hopefully they will do the same with the Windstar. Still doesn't explain why the interior seems to be deliberately designed to be uncomfortable compared to the competition (don't want to give you the wrong idea, the 2000 Windstar is very comfortable, especially compared to my 95 which had horrid seats, but it could be a lot better).

One possibility is that the tooling for the 3.8L is good for producing x number of blocks before it needs to be replaced and so they want to get their money's worth out of it. That's just a guess though.

They've already ended production of the 5.0, as far as I know, so the 3.8 can't be too far behind

I don't know what's up with the seats, other than that I've been in other Ford vehicles that have had less than comfortable seats. OTOH, Ford seats seem to last longer (the seats in my 88 Mustang GT are practically mint condition...wish I could say the same about the paint....)

Brian

I like the interior of my moms '01 sebring. Everything is solid and lined up correctly. And NO RATTLES!

The 3.8 has a lot more low end torque than the duratec, and in something that heavy it helps!

I thought/think they could make a DOHC 3.8 with VVT and have it put out 250/250 easy!

The 3.8L isn't OHC, it's your standard 12 valve pushrod engine, although it does incorporate a balance shaft over the camshaft.

I'm sure the cam profiles could be adapted to get the low end torque out of the 3.0L Duratech that my heavy Windstar (near 5000 lbs!) needs to get moving. If they can make a 2.5L SVT run 200 hp/170 ft lbs, I see no reason why a 3.0L can't hit 200 hp/212 ft lbs. Hell, they could probably make 220 hp/245 ft lbs easy, with a rather flat torque curve. The engine would be a hell of a lot smoother too.

Keep in mind that peak torque is when the cylinders are most efficiently being filled with air (aka volumetric efficiency). There's a limit to how much torque you can get out of a certain displacement engine without help from forced induction. Getting it at lower RPMs is even more of an engineering challenge.

The Mazda MVP (minivan) has the 2.5L Duratec in it, I read a review of it where the reviewer said it was slow. This may have had something to do with his other comment that the automatic transmission was shifting at 4700RPM with the pedal to the floor. I think we all know that's not quite an optimum shift point for the Duratec!

Brian

They use the 3.0 now.

As an owner of an MPV we compared it to the Windstall and Caravan. The DC is a very refined van, as DC has had time to work out the creature comforts. Of course, they've also had part of two decades now to work out the Automatic 4 speed automatic, but yet it seems to still grenade itself at 60-75K intervals.

The Windstall seemed like driving a tractor compared to the DC vans, and the reliability history of Ford's engines and transmissions for this platform may rival DC for the cellar. The DC engines seem reasonably reliable.

The MPV is the dog when drag racing. However, 90% of the time, our MPV has two or three people in it, and very little gear. It handles better than the other two (as well as the Odyssey we test drove and were underwealmed by) and is fine around town as well as highway driving.

I think those who simply compared 0-60 times in minivans were really missing the mark for who and how they are used. We've had ours for 2 years and about 21K miles, without drama. The only recall we've had was a sticker for the door and the owners manual correcting errors about the tire load range required.

I wouldn't tow a trailer with this, but then if I were buying a van to tow with frequently, it would be a full sized RWD van with a V8.

The 2002 MPV with the 3L Duratec and Jatco 5speed ATX is a great minivan choice for those who only need a 7/8ths sized "minivan"

Finally, if it proves reliable, the new Kia minivan may be the value leader, at about 23K fully loaded, you get a lot of van for the money. The question is will the company behind the 10year/100K warranty still be in business before you get done making all of your payments.

FWIW,

TB