Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums General Common Interests Cops and "blue light pass"

Sandman, can you just for once, for the sake of variety if nothing else, think for yourself rather than just spouting books, court cases, and the thoughts of others?

Originally posted by Sandman333:

Given that, do you tell your doctor how to remove your appendix (or even give him pointers?)? Do you tell your dentist how to cap your tooth? What about your plumber, do you suggest new methods and materials when he does work for you? All these people have received professional training in their chosen field, as I have. Most people wouldn't think to tell these people how to do their job. However, put a police officer in front of them, and all they can offer is criticizm.

Originally posted by Sandman333:
Here is a little quip, author unknown, but I've found over the years that every bit of it is true. Ask yourself if you fit in here somewhere:

Quote:

Well, Mr. Citizen, it seems you've figured me out. I seem to fit neatly into the category where you've placed me.

I'm stereotyped, standardized, characterized, classified, grouped, and always typical. Unfortunately, the reverse is true.....I can never figure you out.

From birth you teach your children that I'm the bogeyman, then you're shocked when they identify me with my traditional enemy....the criminal!

You accuse me of coddling criminals......until I catch your kids doing wrong.

You may take an hour for lunch and several coffee breaks each day,
but point me out as a loafer for having one cup.

You pride yourself on your manners, but think nothing of disrupting my meals with your troubles.

You raise hell with the guy who cuts you off in traffic, but let me catch you doing the same thing and I'm picking on you. You know all the traffic laws...but you've never gotten a single ticket you deserve.

You shout "foul" if you observe me driving fast to a call, but raise the roof if I take more than ten seconds to respond to your complaint.

You call it part of my job if someone strikes me, but call it police brutality if I strike back.

You wouldn't think of telling your dentist how to pull a tooth or your doctor how to take out an appendix, yet your always willing to give me pointers on the law.

You talk to me in a manner that would get you a bloody nose from anyone else, but expect me to take it without batting an eye.

You yell something's got to be done to fight crime, but you can't be bothered to get involved.

You have no use for me at all, but of course it's OK if I change a flat for your wife, deliver your child in the back of the patrol car, or perhaps save your son's life with mouth to mouth breathing, or work many hours overtime looking for your lost daughter.

So, Mr. Citizen, you can stand there on your soapbox and rant and rave about the way I do my work, calling me every name in the book, but never stop to think that your property, family, or maybe even your life depends on me or one of my buddies.

Yes, Mr. Citizen, it's me...the lousy cop!

Originally posted by Sandman333:
Noticed you didn't mention the doctor in there, as if he/she makes a mistake, you may not be around to contest it later. I beg to differ, and think it is a perfect analogy. All of these careers (including police officers) receive professional education. If you are arrested, you can still later be proven innocent. I see no difference.

Also, if plumbers, dentists, etc., do not interact with the general public, then just who do they interact with? The difference is that the majority of officer contacts with the public are non-consensual (ie, traffic stops). This immediately builds animosity towards the officer, though he/she is only doing their job. Given that, the playing field is hardly fair, and thus you have cop-bashing, as witnessed here.

I rest my case.

Originally posted by Sandman333:

You talk to me in a manner that would get you a bloody nose from anyone else, but expect me to take it without batting an eye.

Originally posted by qaz:
'course, if the doctor makes a mistake, your next of kin can slap him/her with a multimillion dollar lawsuit.

lol, what good does that do you? Will you feel better in your coffin, knowing that your survivors can exact revenge? I find it funny that you would lambast police officers for making a mistake that may rob you of your personal physical freedom for a period, and brush off a mistake made by a doctor that may rob you of your life. Of course, police officers can make that mistake also, let's just hope that neither does

I do see a difference--you would agree with me that a plumber/doctor/whatever that does what is in the end a "bad job" can and should be criticized for it.

You would not agree with me that a police officer that does what is in the end a "bad job" should be criticized for it, because the general public has no idea how to do that person's job and didn't get the training. Etc.

Sure, they should all be critized for poor performance. However, you are putting the cart before the horse. You are criticizing before you see the end result (sort of like standing over your plumber, telling him that you don't think he sweated that last copper connection just right), when you have no foreknowledge of the tactics required to complete the mission.

There are other professions besides that of law enforcement officer that suffer from a bad public image.

But none so quick to be criticized by the general public. Again, this goes to the typical non-consensual contact between police and the public.

Let me ask you this, and no, it's not a trick question--as a police officer, who is your customer?

Brian

Originally posted by qaz:
This bit is revealing, by the way. Most people who have matured beyond the high school stage aren't going to give someone a bloody nose for words.

Problem is, most people haven't matured beyond the high school stage- at least the people we as police officers are most likely to deal with.

The fact that the guy who wrote this obviously isn't aware of this...I'm not sure what to make of it. Maybe it's a result of only dealing with criminals, must cloud the outlook on life.

Brian

Originally posted by svtcarboy:
My statement had nothing to do about swaying opinion.

:rolleyes:

I say what I think, and frankly don't care if people like me or you better or worse as a result. Every time we are on a topic of this sort regarding legislation, police officers, and/or the justice system, your position always defends the status quo.

Wrong, I have stated repeatedly on these forums that I believe that police officers should be held to a higher standard than the public. That is certainly not the status quo today.

Nothing is perfect, and I would think that as one inside the police system that you would have some very clear ideas and vision for how things can be improved. Would it be the end of the world for you to base an argument based on bettering the justice system versus defending it exactly as it is (which gives the perception that you arrogantly think it is perfect)?

You must have missed the entire thread about IL law concerning concealed compartments and seizure of the vehicles wherein they are found. I believe I was rather comprehensive in that thread, and received many PMs expressing sincere admiration for standing up for police officers despite that not being the popular opinion (who would have figured, on a car forum :rolleyes: ). Point is, my arguments were well thought out, by me, and expressed my opinions. This may surprise you, but through experience I have found that what I learned in PTI really does have bearing on my job. Go figure.

If you do not have any such arguments, please take the time to critically examine police procedure where things as they SHOULD BE differ from things as they ARE, rather than just defending things as they are. I challenge you to think outside the box.

And your suggestions are, and they are based on? If it is mere assumption (gee, that cop is speeding, and he doesn't have his lights on, must be on the way to Dunkin' Donuts...), then save it. I've heard enough of that to last me a lifetime. Until you do this job, don't make uneducated assumptions about what the police are or are not doing.

Since the public, your clients, are clearly dissatisfied with the driving of police officers without lights and or siren on, whether or not they are responding to a call, departments need to be proactive.

What you fail to realize is that not everything the police do will please everyone. Just because some minority faction on a prejudicial discussion group (CEG is not necessarrily "Cop friendly") expresses discontent at the manner in which police officers drive, does not mean that there is some "obvious" dinscontent upon the general public. All too often on this forum, the complaints about police officer's driving habits are forwarded by those who practice the same habits or much worse when they think no one is watching. Just look at all the "kill" (street drag racing) stories on these forums for proof of that.

Likewise, even if there was a general discontent, it does not necessarrily follow that police officers should change their behavior. Police officers have a duty to protect the public. This duty requires certain actions that may not always please the public. Does that mean that the police simply disregard public opinion? No, certainly not. However, you act as though public opinion were the only guiding force. Let me assure you, it is not, nor should it be.

Even if my opinion, and those of others on the board are not the definitive answer, neither is just defending current procedure. Police departments should be taking these issues more seriously and start developing new strategies and procedures that are effective in both protecting the public and not upsetting them.

Current proceedure works, even if a minority here doesn't agree. Further, departments are doing just what you suggest. It's called community policing, and is highly effective.

Don't you think the public should have some say in how they are protected? I do.

Sure. On the other hand, is the public acutely aware of the means and methods required of a police officer in the execution of his duties? No, not at all. The public merely relies on assumption.

On the doctor/plumber/mechanic quip: I have a chance to evaluate the work of other professionals before I even hire them to perform their services. I can talk to other clients, see their track record before having them do the work for me. I have no such choice with my law enforcement services. Therefore, my first chance to be critical of their performance is as I see them perform, later than for other professionals.

Then criticize them once you see the end result, not before. Otherwise, you fall prey to misguided assumption just like the next Joe....

I don't think anyone here is saying that all police officers that break traffic laws are on their way to Krispy Kreme, but all too many are. Like my dad says about road workers cruising around in their trucks, "they give everyone in an orange truck a bad name."

Those that are should be punished for it, as I have said many times on these forums. It seems, though, that you would have the entirety of police policy manuals dictated by public opinion. Sorry, not going to happen. Not at all practical. Furthermore, it would make police work too dangerous for nearly anyone, while simultaneously rendering them ineefective in the performance of their duties.

I understand your desire to have us look through the eyes of a police officer. It may be helpful if police officers look through the eyes of the general public as well.